On 24 Feb, 12:44, claviger <historiae.fi...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> On Feb 23, 4:04=A0pm, Walt <papakochenb...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 25 Jan, 20:22, claviger <historiae.fi...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
> > > On Jan 24, 11:51=A0pm, "tomnln" <tom...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
> > > > "claviger" <historiae.fi...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>
> > >
>news:492b890f-e442-4f6f-a360-e175f09797c4@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > On Jan 23, 11:21 pm, claviger <historiae.fi...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
> > > > > Robert,
>
> > > > > This is a perplexing subject. You would think that many
witnesses =
can't be
> > > > > wrong. Assuming they are correct, we must reconsider the
implicati=
ons
> > > > > pertaining to the timing of all 3 shots.
>
> > > > > A majority of witnesses claim they heard a total of 3 shots and
th=
e first
> > > > > shot missed. It is obvious shots were fired at z225 and z313.
Thos=
e are
> > > > > considered by most researchers to be the 2nd and 3rd shots fired
a=
t the
> > > > > Limousine. When we measure the timing between those two frames
we =
get 4.8
> > > > > seconds. According to the witnesses you quote the interval
between=
the 1st
> > > > > and 2nd shot was even longer. If we go backward from z225 the
most=
we can
> > > > > go to is frame z133 which is 5.0 seconds earlier. There is some
ev=
idence
> > > > > to sup****t z133: "One of the best witnesses is photographer Tina
T=
owner.
> > > > > Tina has always been specific that the first shot came just a
seco=
nd or
> > > > > two AFTER she stopped filming; she actually stopped only a
second =
or two
> > > > > before Z133." Gary Mack
>
> > > > > If the 1st shot was fired at z133 then the difference is only 2
se=
conds,
> > > > > which may or may not account for the auricular perception
re****ted=
by
> > > > > these witnesses. Oddly enough z225 would then be halfway between
t=
he first
> > > > > and last shot. If this is what happened then all 3 shots were
fire=
d in 9.8
> > > > > seconds, which is interesting because some researchers now claim
t=
hat 10
> > > > > seconds may be closer to the truth.
>
> > > > > There is a new theory put forth by Max Holland the first shot
was =
fired
> > > > > during the pause when Zapruder turned off his camera waiting for
t=
he
> > > > > Presidential Limousine to make the turn from Houston to Elm. By
th=
e time
> > > > > he restarted his camera the Limousine has completed the turn and
i=
s moving
> > > > > down Elm, so it's possible LHO took his first shot prior to
z133. =
If these
> > > > > witnesses are correct in their perception of the time interval
bet=
ween
> > > > > shots it would lend weight to Holland's theory.
>
> > > > > The missing link is the first shot and there is no single
reaction=
by
> > > > > anyone to pinpoint it. The only hope is to piece together the
coll=
ective
> > > > > reactions of several people to give us some idea. There are
severa=
l people
> > > > > to watch in the film that may give a clue: Clint Hill, Agent
Hicke=
y,
> > > > > Rosemary Willis, Governor Connally, and of course, the
President.
>
> > > > > Notice early in the film Hickey is sitting upright then suddenly
l=
eans to
> > > > > his left and seems to be looking down at the street. Why?
Rosemary=
Willis
> > > > > said she was running with the Limousine until she stopped
suddenly=
when
> > > > > she heard a loud noise. Gov. Connally said he heard a loud noise
t=
hat
> > > > > sounded like a rifle shot and looked immediately to his right.
We =
can
> > > > > clearly see him turn to the right where he is not smiling and
appe=
ars to
> > > > > be staring intently at the crowd. By contrast the President
seems =
to be
> > > > > happy and enjoying the crowd until passing behind the road sign.
>
> > > > > A ballistics expert who studied this case for over two decades
is =
in
> > > > > agreement the first shot missed the Limousine. He thinks it
ricoch=
eted off
> > > > > the pavement causing a fragment of the bullet to strike the
Presid=
ent in
> > > > > the back of the head. He believes the President reacted to this
fl=
esh
> > > > > wound by saying out loud, "My God, I've been hit!" Only Agent
Kell=
erman
> > > > > claims to have heard him say this. Doctors think the 2nd shot
that=
pierced
> > > > > the President's throat damaged his trachea so it would not be
poss=
ible for
> > > > > him to speak, therefore the words heard by Agent Kellerman must
ha=
ve been
> > > > > a reaction to the 1st shot. No other passenger heard the
President=
say
> > > > > anything at all.
>
> > > > > The person who prepared the President's body for burial noticed
ce=
ment
> > > > > particles on the President's face. A majority of witnesses
believe=
the
> > > > > first shot missed. Five out of six witnesses who saw a bullet
stri=
ke the
> > > > > pavement were sure it was the first shot fired. This shot missed
e=
veryone
> > > > > on Elm Street, but a fragment may have nicked James Tague
standing=
on Main
> > > > > Street.
>
> > > > > If JFK was struck by a fragment early in the film he doesn't
appea=
r to
> > > > > react at all. If he was not struck by a fragment then he, like
man=
y other
> > > > > people in the crowd, may have thought it was a firecracker or a
mo=
torcycle
> > > > > backfire, so he paid no attention to it. The question is why
would=
> > > > > Kellerman lie about hearing the President react? Could it be the
P=
resident
> > > > > was making a joke after hearing this first loud pop? Or is it
poss=
ible JFK
> > > > > was able to speak after the 2nd shot but quickly went into
shock?
>
> > > > > With all this in mind, study the body language of all these
people=
and see
> > > > > what you come up with.
>
> > > >
--------------------------------------------------------------------=
----
> > > > correction:
>
> > > > If the 1st shot was fired at z133 then the difference is only 0.2
se=
conds,
> > > > which may or may not account for the auricular perception re****ted
b=
y
> > > > these witnesses. Oddly enough z225 would then be halfway between
the=
first
> > > > and last shot. If this is what happened then all 3 shots were
fired =
in 9.8
> > > > seconds, which is interesting because some researchers now claim
tha=
t 10
> > > > seconds may be closer to the truth.
>
> > > > Looks like claviger KNOWS it can NOT be done in 5.6 seconds.
>
> > > > NEXT, he'll have the shooter meating a sandwich between shots.
> > > >
--------------------------------------------------------------------=
-------
>
> > > Tomnin,
>
> > > > Looks like claviger KNOWS it can NOT be done in 5.6 seconds.
>
> > > > NEXT, he'll have the shooter meating a sandwich between shots.
>
> > > Do you mean introduced to a sandwich or preparing a sandwich?
>
> > > It has already been established 5.6 seconds is enough time for 3
shots=
> > > with two reloads,
>
> > Perhaps the a Mannlicher Carcano can be fired threetimes in 5.6
> > seconds.... But I seriously doubt that a Mannlicher Carcano could be
> > fired ACCURATELY three times in 5.6 seconds. =A0 I own several MC's
and
> > have fired them many times, so I speak from experience when I say I
> > SERIOUSLY doubt a MC could be firedACCURATELY in 5.6 seconds. =A0 The
> > other
> > aspect of the elapsed time of 5.6 seconds for the shooting is the FACT
> > that the shots would have to be approximately EVENLY spaced if the MC
> > is fired three times in 5.6 seconds. =A0Virtually NONE of the
witnesses
> > said the sounds of the gunshots were EVENLY spaced. =A099.9% of the
> > witnesses said the first shot was separated from the next tow by
> > several seconds, and then shots two and three were nearly superimposed
> > on each other.
>
> > =A0since the FBI estimated it takes 2.3 seconds to
>
> > > rechamber and fire the rifle. In actual field testing experiments
seve=
ral
> > > volunteers were able to better that time frame. A little known fact
is=
> > > Robert Blakey and Gary Cornwell during the HSCA investigation took
C27=
66
> > > (WC139) to the FBI firing range and test fired the rifle. Both
Blakey =
and
> > > Cornwell were able rechamber and fire the rifle in less than 2
seconds=
..- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > - Show quoted text -
>
> Walt,
>
> Owners of MC rifles I read about on various blogs praise the MC for
> its accuracy and how fast the bolt action operates. Blakey and
> Cornwell took the actual rifle C2766 to an FBI firing range and proved
> the bolt action could recycle in 1.5 seconds. They were testing a
> point-and-fire theory vs the aim-and-fire theory. A number of shooters
> have demonstrated the MC rifle is capable of firing 3 rounds in 5.6
> seconds while hitting a slow moving target 2/3 inside 100 yards from
> an elevated position 60' high.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
I just posted a reply to you, before I noticed the header...... Let's
see if the perfesser allows my reply to be posted.
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