On Feb 27, 5:24=EF=BF=BDpm, curtjester1 <curtjest...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> On Feb 27, 10:44=EF=BF=BDam, Walt <papakochenb...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:>
On =
27 Feb, 01:21, Raymond <Bluerhy...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
> Hey Walt, you know anything about any 7.35 MC's? =EF=BF=BDI am reading a
b=
ook
> where this CIA OP (Robert Morrow) was in the middle of Shaw, Ferrie,
> Oswald, Cuba and assignments, and says the 7.35's were brought in
> because they were good sniping rifles, and they had known of Oswald's
> purchase of the 6.65 one, and were going to use the weapons in the
> blaming of Oswald for the killing of the President?
>
> The book is Betrayal
>
> CJ
CJ
The Rifle 6.5 mm M1938 (Mannlicher-Carcano 91/38)
This rifle became of international interest when President John F
Kennedy, 35th President of the United States, was assassinated on 22
November 1963. An example of the Mannlicher-Carcano was originally
presumed to have been used by the assassin since one was found nearby,
but later detail investigations have thrown doubt on this. The 6.5 mm
MC was produced in 1940 at the Italian arsenal at Terni. In 1938, with
the introduction of the more powerful 7.35 mm cartridge, a new short
rifle and two patterns of carbines chambered for this cartridge were
introduced, all with fixed sights. The entrance of Italy into World
War 2 in 1940, with insufficient supplies of ammunition at hand,
caused second thoughts on the use of another cartridge and that same
year the 6.5 mm was reintroduced, and Carcanos manufactured from that
date were again chambered for the 6.5 mm cartridge. There were
relatively few 7.35 mm MCs manufactured.
RE: Cuba and assignments, and says the 7.35's were brought in because
they were good sniping rifles, and they had known of Oswald's purchase
of the 6.65 one, and were going to use the weapons in the blaming of
Oswald for the killing of the President?
(A highly unlikely story)
They were not a better sniping rifle and they would hardly use a 7:35
to frame him if they knew that LHO had purchased a 6.5 mm MC
(Not Walt) .Excuse my injecting my thoughts. I thought I would add
what I know about the 7:35 mm.Carcano. Perhaps Walt knows more about
the different weapons,and will
submit his own information
--- Raymond
>
>
>
>
> > > Miscellaneous Information on the Carcano
>
> > > Adam Consolidated (CRESCENT FIREARMS)
> > > "Three American firms entered the competition for the 91s that the
> > > Italian Defense Ministry was selling. Adam Consolidated, in
> > > conjunction with the Feldsott brothers,who won the bidding with a
> > > total offer of $ 1,776,OOO for the approximately =EF=BF=BD570,000
guns=
.." =EF=BF=BD"...
> > > Some 5300 kilos (approx. 1200 Pounds) of parts were included in the
> > > contract price. Adam also purchased 2,608,704 rounds of
> > > ammunition, which were picked up and paid for as items separate from
> > > the surplus weapons, on three occasions."
>
> > > =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BDAug. 8, 1960 ....................653,176
cartridges=
6.5 mm
> > > =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BDJuly 31, 1961.................... 1,304,352
=EF=BF=
=BD same
> > > =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BDJune 6, 1962 ..................... 652,176
=EF=BF=
=BD =EF=BF=BDsame
>
> > > The price was =EF=BF=BD$13.57 per thousand, or somewhat more than a
pe=
nny per
> > > bullet.
> > > =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD---- THE GUN - Henry S. Bloomgarden
>
> > > Apparently, thousands of these Italian rifles were sold in the US
> > > before Crescent won the above bid. Klein's was selling the 7.35 mm
as
> > > early as the spring of 1958 =EF=BF=BDIn their ad of 4-58, the
MANNLICH=
ER HIGH
> > > POWER RIFLE sold for $12.95- Good outside, very good inside. A very
> > > good outside-Excellent inside sold for $14.95 and an Excellent
inside
> > > and outside cost $16.95. For 98 cents, a leather sling was available
> > > and a cleaning rod cost 79 cents. Military ammo in clips of six-12
for=
> > > 98 cents- 48 for $2.98.
>
> > > The following month-the same ad, but the sling and rod were included
> > > free. =EF=BF=BD From 7-58 until 10-60, Klein's did not
> > > advertise any MCs. Then, in 10-60 appeared their ad for the CUSTOM
> > > S****TERIZED MODEL for $19.88.
>
> > > In 3-62 the 6.5 mm was advertised for $11.88. AMERICAN RIFLEMAN .
=EF=
=BF=BDIn
> > > 1958, Congressman Morano was pleading : "Let's find out where some
of
> > > these Carcano rifles have gone." =EF=BF=BDMacy's and Sears Roebuck ,
a=
s well
> > > as s****ting supply stores, discount stores and Army-and-Navy-surplus
> > > stores sold the weapon and the ammo.
>
> > > Some of these guns came from Finland:
>
> > > "During the first winter of the war with Russia, Finland procured
from=
> > > Sweden approximately 15,000 Swedish 6.5 mm M 96 Mausers and 6.5 mm
> > > ammunition which Finland decided to manufacture for these weapons
> > > during WW II. Finland received, in addition, a supply of Italian
M38,
> > > 7.35 mm carbines via Germany during WW II. Both weapons saw limited
> > > service as they were relegated to use by the stationary troops, such
> > > as guards on bridges, airfields, railways, waterworks, etc. Today ,
> > > the greater ****tion of the M 38 carbines Finland received can be
> > > traced to the U.S. market as surplus war goods."
>
> > > ----- =EF=BF=BD FROM- BOOK OF RIFLES
>
> > > I have noticed that there is an interest in the Carcano, its costs,
> > > and also questions about the ammunition. Do yourselves a favor and
see=
> > > you can still buy this book =EF=BF=BD-THE MARKETING OF A WEAPON. The
b=
ook was
> > > produced by Gary Nivaggi, in Dec. 1994. In the late 50's and early
> > > 60's, many varieties, styles and calibers of the MC rifles were
> > > offered at low prices. ( I recently sold my copy on eBay.)
>
> > > Nivaggi has photo-copied, from he pages of "American Rifleman" the
> > > marketing of the weapon for the years 1958-1964. Included are full
> > > sized copies of Klein's S****ting Goods ads . Also, ads from various
> > > other dealers and distributors, all selling MCs and MC ammo. The
book
> > > contains questions regarding the MC; various ammo loads for it; its
> > > clip, and other great information about the stopping and "knockdown"
> > > capabilities of firearm projectiles. All from the pages of American
> > > Rifleman.
>
> > > Many questions being asked will all be answered if you own THE
> > > MARKETING OF A WEAPON.
>
> > > Another book that will provide valuable information that comes from
a
> > > real expert on the Carcano. Contact Richard Hobbs, 3958 Cambridge
Rd.
> > > # 162, Cameron Park, CA 95682. (Last address I have of Hobbs)
=EF=BF=
=BDSearch
> > > bio on Hobbs
>
> > > Hobbs is a collector of Carcanos since 1945 and probably knows more
> > > about the weapon than anyone in this country. His book: THE CARCANO
> > > Italy's Military Rifle.(About $18.00) He is not a JFK "BUFF."- but
he
> > > sure knows that weapon. =EF=BF=BDIf you own these two books, you
will =
hardly
> > > ever have a question about the Carcano again.
>
> > > Also see: =EF=BF=BDhttp://www.rememuseum.org.uk/
> > > =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD
=EF=BF=BD =
=EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD
=EF=BF=BDhttp://www.rememuseum.org.uk/arms/armindex.htm
> > > =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD
=EF=BF=BD =
=EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD
=EF=BF=BDhttp://www.rememuseum.org.uk/arms/rifles/armisr=
c.htmhttp://www.carbin....
>
> > > "The sling is not a standard rifle sling but appears to be a musical
> > > instrument strap or a sling from a carrying case or camera bag." 3H
> > > 397 SA Frazier, FBI.
>
> > > The sling on the TSBD rifle was a part of a U.S. Air Force holster
and=
> > > harness set, patented by Norris N. Murray, on March 6, 1956, patent
> > > No. 2,819,830. =EF=BF=BD( see U.S. Military Holsters and Pistol
cartri=
dge
> > > Boxes By Edward Scott Meadows, 1987 , 376.)
>
> > This is BS...created by that lyin urine examiner.....Dr Peeslinger..
> > or whatever his name was.
>
> > The sling is not a sling at all...at least not a sling as the US
> > military uses it. =EF=BF=BDUS military uses the leather or canvas
straps=
on
> > the rifles for the dual purpose of carrying the rifle and as a way of
> > getting a more secure grip on the rifle for more accurate firing.
>
> > The "sling" on a Mannlicher Carcano serves only to carry the rifle.
> > The strap is used to carry the rifle across a soldiers back while
> > freeing his hands from the burden. =EF=BF=BDThere are many photos
availa=
ble
> > that show Italian soldiers with the rifle slung across their backs.
> > They did not carry the rifle hanging from their shoulder as American
> > soldiers do. =EF=BF=BDThe Italian method of carrying the rifle made it
m=
ore
> > difficult, and slower, to ready it for firing. =EF=BF=BD The exception
t=
o the
> > usual Italian method of carrying the rifle across the back were
> > Mussolini's body guards. =EF=BF=BDMussolini had an elite corps of body
g=
uards
> > called the "Guardie Del Duce". =EF=BF=BDThey had custom black and
silver=
> > uniforms, with glossy black helmets, belts, and boots.
> > The stocks of their model 91/38 Mannlicher Carcanos were stained black
> > and they were equipped with custom slings, of glossy black leather,
> > with a wide leather shoulder pad attached by rings to the sling.
=EF=BF=
=BDThis
> > shoulder pad was designed to relieve the fatigue, and pressure, on the
> > guards shoulders when they stood for long hours with the rifle hanging
> > from their shoulders.
>
> > The rifle that was found in the TSBD is a very rare Guardie del duce
> > rifle that was equiooed with one of those custom slings. =EF=BF=BDThe
co=
lored
> > photo of the TSBD rifle that appeared in the November 1983 issue of
> > LIFE magazine shows that the rifle stock is stained black as the
> > Guardie Del Duce rifles were, and it has the custom sling
> > attached.
>
> > > And, the alleged Oswald (TSBD) rifle was not just another Italian
> > > surplus Carcano. The rifle was part of a small lot of rifles that
were=
> > > specially ordered to be the rifles of the Guardie del Duce, an elite
> > > group of one hundred men charged with the job of guarding Mussolini
.
> > > The stocks were thinner, lighter and were dyed black. ( R.HOBBS, The
> > > Carcano, Italy's Military Rifle)
>
> > > And, it was not the rifle that LHO had delivered in the spring of
> > > 1963. The TSBD weapon was a longer rifle by four inches with sling
> > > swivels on the side of the rifle. The backyard photo rifle had the
> > > swivels on the bottom . The problem!! =EF=BF=BDThe rifle delivered
fro=
m
> > > Klein's had the serial number C-2766. So did the TSBD rifle . That
> > > can't be, unless someone changed the number, which would have been
> > > very easy to do. This weapon had the serial number on the back end
of
> > > the barrel, where it screws into the receiver . A simple matter of
> > > minutes to remove and not much more to remove and replace the serial
> > > number. Which means, if I am right, the rifle in the National
Archives=
> > > has a number that it did not have prior to 11-22-63.
>
> > > From Martha Moyer, well known to the JFK assassination community.:
>
> > > "Do you know how easy it is to change a SN on a rifle? =EF=BF=BDI
do!!=
! =EF=BF=BDAbout
> > > six months ago I considered having the SN on my MC changed to read
> > > C2766. The gunsmith told me "no problem - in fact, quite simple"
(Oh,
> > > by the way, my MC is a 36") If I wanted to frame somebody - I would
> > > get the serial number of their gun - registered to them - find a
> > > duplicate and change to their SN. =EF=BF=BDI would then leave it at
th=
e scene
> > > of the crime"
>
> > > Martha Moyer
>
> > > Numerous people have compared the photos taken by Marina with photos
> > > of the murder weapon and agree that they are not the same weapon.
>
> > > SEE THE SECOND
CARCANOhttp://jfkresearch.freehomepage.com/c2766.htmlht=
tp://www.geocities.co...
>
> > > Its a matter of record that there was another MC rifle with the
#2766,=
> > > that found its way from Montreal to Chicago.The Chicago vendor was
> > > Alden's. This was the only MC with that number. Italy used the same
> > > numbering system as Germany
>
> > > The Italian arms manufacturers used the same consecutive marking
> > > system that the Germans used for identification, serial numbers,
> > > manufacturing plant, etc.. It began with a three digit serial
number,
> > > progressed through the thousand
>
> ...
>
> read more =EF=BF=BD- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
|
