On 28 Feb, 11:39, Raymond <Bluerhy...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> On Feb 28, 10:07=C2=A0am, Walt <papakochenb...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On 28 Feb, 00:49, Raymond <Bluerhy...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
> > > On Feb 27, 9:28=C2=A0pm, Walt <papakochenb...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
> > > > On 27 Feb, 19:31, Raymond <Bluerhy...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
> > > > > On Feb 27, 7:17=EF=BF=BDpm, Walt <papakochenb...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
wrot=
e:
>
> > > > > > On 27 Feb, 16:24, curtjester1 <curtjest...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > On Feb 27, 10:44=EF=BF=BDam, Walt
<papakochenb...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>=
wrote:> On 27 Feb, 01:21, Raymond <Bluerhy...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
> > Raymond....I'm sorry if you were offended by my post. =C2=A0I didn't
int=
end
> > to be critical of your KNOWLEDGE of the case, I believe you know the
> > case very well, and I appreciate having yet another person in the
> > group with a good grasp of the case. =C2=A0The title of this thread is
> > "Miss info about the Carcano", and CJ asked a question about the
> > 7.35mm Carcano . You did an excellent job of answering although I
> > thought you presented extraneous information above and beyond what was
> > required.
>
> > I mentioned that I thought there was a foul up in communication among
> > the conspirators.... and I based that on the fact that they had
> > planted a bag that was too small to conceal a 40 inch long Model 38,
> > and they did that because they thought that Oswald had bought a 36
> > inch Carcano Carbine. =C2=A0They apparently had read the Klein ad and
> > assumed that Oswald had a 36 inch Carcano carbine that could be
> > disassembled to a length of 23 1/4 inches. =C2=A0 I never intended to
ge=
t
> > into the paper bag issue and divert attention from the subject of the
> > thread.
>
> > If in fact the rifle found in the TSBD had been a 36 inch carbine the
> > story about Oswald smuggling it into the building in a paper sack
> > would have been plausible. =C2=A0ie; Frazier's estimate of a two foot
> > length for thje bag on the seat of his car, would have been ample to
> > conceal a disassembled carbine. =C2=A0The sack found beneath the
window
> > ( If that's where it was found?) would have been big enough to conceal
> > a fully assembled 36 inch carbine.
>
> Thanks Walt. There is no problem with changing topics from the weapon
> to the
> paper sack. It is done often since the two are related. You are
> correct about the length of the sack and rifle.. It is even possible
> that the paper bag had nothing to do with the murder weapon. Why would
> a shooter go to the trouble of neatly refoulding the bag when he was
> in such a dangerous position?
>
> As long as we are on the subject of the paper sack, let me add some
> more "crap" about it.
>
> I don't believe that LHO was the shooter. However, I believe that he
> was well aware of what was to happen since he was blackmailed into
> partcipating in the murder of the President. Blackmailed because it
> was common knowledge to the plotters and planners that he was the one
who =
shot at Walker.
Lee Oswald was not the shooter who fired from the sixth floor...
I doubt that he was blackmailed into going along with the plot....
More likely he was tricked by appealing to his sense of patriotism and
the fact that after his escapade in the USSE he fancied himself a
blooming James Bond.
I
> SUSPECT that the weapon was already in the building before LHO even
> got to work
I agree .... Oswald saw the ACTUAL assassination weapon in the TSBD on
Wednesday November 18.
and the shooter and another man were in the building---on
> the seventh floor most of the night waiting for the motorcade.
Do you have any evidence sup****ting this theory??
I also
> believe the plan was to shoot from the west side of the fifth floor
They would have had to fire through the trees along Elm street...
> since there was so much work being done on the sixth floor and, in the
> end, =C2=A0the shooter had to go to the only place where he could not be
> seen by employees on their lunch hour --- the sixth floor sniper's
> nest.---
Brennan saw the white clothing clad gunman who was NOT Oswald firing a
HUNTING rifle from the WEST end window.
the worst place in the building to fire from. =C2=A0It was the
> farthest place to exit from and the most likely place to be seen from
> the street. Ther was nothing secure about that building. Anyone could
> enter and leave during the dark hours of the night and probably did on
> more than one occasion during the
> planning of the murder of JFK.
Jack Dougherty testified that it was his duty to unlock the building
before 7:00 am every morning.
>
> The defenders of the Warren Commission's claim that LHO constructed a
> paper container from materials in the TSBD to trans****t his Mannlicher
> - =C2=A0Carcano from the Paine garage, in Irving, to the sixth floor of
th=
e
> building where he worked, have got some questions to answer. =C2=A0If
Lee
> snitched paper and tape from the ****pping room, when did he do this
> without Troy West seeing him and when and where did he manufacture the
> final container? Troy West testified that he seldom moved away from
> his station.
A ridiculous idea....not worth responding to....
>
> A replica bag was made of similar materials from the same area of Troy
> West's ****pping room by SA Bardwell D. ODUM on Sunday, December 1 when
> West wasn't =C2=A0there to watch over his coffee business and his paper
> rolls. =C2=A0Did ODUM construct his sack while in the ****pping room or
did=
> he too take the paper
> and tape home with him, hidden in his trousers and construct his
> container without being seen?
>
> If Lee did have his weapon in the mysterious bag and carried it from
> Frazier's car into the TSBD, where did he deposit it until needed to
> shoot at the President?.
He didn't!!......
=C2=A0Since he was allegedly seen entering the
> back door of the building empty handed, how did he make his package
> disappear?
>
> When last seen by Frazier, he had the alleged rifle under his arm and
> by the time he was seen by Dougherty the package was no longer an
> issue. =C2=A0If true, =C2=A0Lee had about four hours to retrieve his
murde=
r
> weapon and take it up to the sixth floor without being seen.
> Considering the above, we must conclude that the package was hidden
> outside the building without Frazier seeing Lee conceal it. This would
> indicate that at some point during the morning Lee had to leave the
> building, recover his package and carry it, unseen again, to the sixth
> floor where he had to assemble it.
>
> Difficult to explain? Indeed !
>
> Now, the defenders of the curtain rod story also have some explaining
> to do.
>
> If Lee did take paper and tape from the ****pping room and was able at
> some point to construct the brown paper bag, the same scenario exists.
> If he had curtain rods in the package when he exited Frazier's car and
> was seen empty handed by Dougherty, what happened to his rods?
=C2=A0Let's=
> examine Dougherty's testimony since so much value is placed on his
> seeing Lee enter the back door empty handed.
The "curtain rod" story was invented by the cops so that buell Frazier
would sup****t the idea that oswald carried a long package.
Frazier had been threatened with being charged as an accessory because
he had trans****ted the assassin's weapon to the scene of the crime.
The cops told Frazier that Oswald had claimed that the package
contained curtain rods ( Oswald had said nothing of the kind) ...
Frazier saw that if he claimed that Oswald had told him the package
contained curtain rods he would be off the hook for the accessory
charge. So that's what he said when the cops told him that Oswald
claimed the package held curtain rods...
Detective--- Buell, Lee has told us that the package you saw on the
back seat of your car contained curtain rods.
Frazier--- Yes, that's right, he told me that the package contained
curtain rods ..( whew....now they can't accuse me of being an
accessory)
Detective--- Would you be willing to take a polygraph exam??
Frazier --- Yes, I'll take the test.
>
> He says he was sitting on the wrapping table "when Lee came through
> the rear door" empty handed. When asked about the location of the door
> and if it was the only door, he said , "Yes." =C2=A0He was not
necessarily=
> lying. =C2=A0However, what he said was misleading. =C2=A0To explain, we
mu=
st
> examine the floor plan drawing of the first floor of the TSBD. (CE
> 1061). Where he was seated, =C2=A0he could not have seen Lee enter the
rea=
r
> door to the building from outside since that door only deposits a
> person onto the deck of the rear loading dock-not the first floor
> proper where Dougherty described seeing Lee enter empty handed.
>
> LOOKING AT THE DRAWING: After entering the loading dock from outside,
> we see a door from the dock to the first floor and the ****pping floor
> equipment where Dougherty was sitting. =C2=A0 So now we have our
antinomy!=
> Both sides of the argument can argue that Lee left the package
> (containing the rods or rifle) someplace on the loading dock where
> neither Frazier or Dougherty would have seen it.
>
> If I was making the movie, I would opt for the curtain rod story and
> improvise from there. Of course, that does not exclude the possibility
> of the rifle, or a similar rifle, having been brought into the
> building before the morning of the 22nd., especially since we are not
> sure when the rifle might have been removed from the Paine's garage,
> are we?
>
> And obviously, Lee had not planned on returning home again to Irving,
> and logic says that he at least wanted to see his family for possibly
> the last time, =C2=A0so he fibbed to Frazier about why he wanted to go
hom=
e
> a day early. =C2=A0And not to be seen as a liar, =C2=A0he did have a set
o=
f
> Ruth's curtain rods, already wrapped from the Paine garage. Hell, Ruth
> had lots of cheap rods and wasn't using them anyhow.
>
> See Testimony of both Ruth and Mike Paine and you will see that they
> disagree on how many sets of unused rods were wrapped and stored in
> the garage.--- in brown wrapping paper. The rods were 27 inches long.
It's all irrelevant .... the "curtain rods" were nothing but a
figment of some cop's imagination.
>
> Yes, if I was making the movie, I would plan the shooting from a
> window on the west side of the fifth floor where my shooter would not
> be seen by the crowds on Houston and Elm streets, =C2=A0and I would have
m=
y
> rifle nearby and ready to fire. I would hide it behind a box of those
> books and have it marked for my shooter =C2=A0so he would know where to
> pick it up when he came down from the seventh floor, where he had been
> hiding since the early hours before the book =C2=A0depository opened.
=C2=
=A0When
> the human traffic was too much on the fifth floor, I would have him
> hurry to the sixth floor and look for a place to shoot at the
> motorcade,
>
> Would I provide some background scenes to convince my audience that my
> movie making plot was sincere? Of course. I would have open windows on
> the west side of the fifth floor and I would show the marking made by
> Lee for my shooter, on the box where the gun was hidden (earlier by
> Lee and not
> necessarily on the 22 nd. (CE 490)
>
> =C2=A0But , I am not really making a movie so posting my =C2=A0thoughts
wi=
ll
> have to do for now.
> =C2=A0See:http://jfkassassination.net/russ/wcexlink.htm
>
> Scan down to Vol.XVII and view CE 730, 731, and 732 to see the
> wrapping benches where Dougherty was sitting when he saw Lee enter at
> 8:am. =C2=A0Then scan to CE 1061----- the floor plan and observe the
outer=
> door to the loading dock and the door from the dock into the first
> floor.Then-
>
> http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh17/html/WH_Vol...
>
> (CE 490) to see where the rifle was hidden behind a box marked with
> the notation: CHICAGO ORDER.
>
> Hmmm! =C2=A0I wonder what that means. It was the only box in the
building
> so marked. =C2=A0Does it mean, =C2=A0here is a rifle from Klein's in
Chica=
go ?
> Compare the handwriting with Lee's script and compare the word CHICAGO
> with the envelope where Lee =C2=A0wrote the address of Klein's S****ting
> Goods CHICAGO. ILL.
>
> They appear to be the same handwriting.
>
> Thanks for listening
>
> --------------------------
>
>
>
> > > > > > > Hey Walt, you know anything about any 7.35 MC's? =EF=BF=BDI
am=
reading a book
> > > > > > > where this CIA OP (Robert Morrow) was in the middle of Shaw,
F=
errie,
>
> ...
>
> read more =C2=BB- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
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