On Mar 1, 12:34=EF=BF=BDpm, John McAdams <john.mcad...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
wrote:=
> On 29 Feb 2008 13:10:51 -0500, alo...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
>
> >uh, John - did you read that ENTIRE Bobby Kennedy interview; it's
> >really =EF=BF=BDquite inconclusive, and it includes the following:
>
> Nice you all that was on my web site (which is not the "entire"
> interview, but is pretty much all that was relevant to Vietnam).
>
> If you are arguing that Kennedy might not have sent hundreds of
> thousands of troops into Vietnam, you may be right -- although nobody
> can really know.
>
> But the question is whether he had *already* decided to pull out and
> let the Communists take over.
>
> The answer to that is: =EF=BF=BD"No."
>
>
>
>
>
> >Martin:
> >There was never any consideration given to pulling out?
> >Kennedy:
> >No.
> >Martin:
> >But the same time, no disposition to go in all . . .
> >Kennedy:
> >No . . .
> >Martin:
> >. . . in an all out way as we went into Korea. We were trying to avoid
> >a Korea, is that correct?
> >Kennedy:
> >Yes, because I, everybody including General MacArthur felt that land
> >conflict between our troops, white troops and Asian, would only lead
> >to, end in disaster. So it was. . . . We went in as advisers, but to
> >try to get the Vietnamese to fight themselves, because we couldn't win
> >the war for them. They had to win the war for themselves.
>
> >-Allen Lowe
>
> .John
> --------------http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm-
Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Kennedy's war
"The year is 1968. 500 000 American soldiers are situated in Vietnam. More
bombs are falling over the country than over Germany in World War II.
Thousands of American soldiers die, hundreds of thousand Vietnamese. The
war is drowning in an ocean of suffering and death. The civilians are
dragged more and more into the actions of war. Thousands of women and
children die. Who is responsible?"
After World War II, the area known as French Indochina became the focus of
independence movements. French Indochina included the countries that today
are called Laos, Cambodia and Vietnam. Fighting in Indochina lasted for
nearly 30 years and had world-wide consequences.
In 1951 Kennedy visited French Indochina. The United State's policy was to
give full support to the French in their struggle against the communist
rebellions in Vietnam. When Kennedy came back to Washington D.C., he
proclaimed that weapons alone could not stop the communists from a full
take over in Southeast Asia, but it was very necessary to give the people
anti-communistic thoughts. Without the support from the native Vietnamese,
there was no hope for success in Southeast Asia. In 1954 France
surrendered Indochina, and Vietnam was divided into two parts, North
Vietnam and South Vietnam. Laos and Cambodia were given full independence.
In December 1961, President Kennedy signed a declaration, in which he
promised to help South Vietnam maintain its independence. The United
States' effort in the war substantially increased. The same month the
first American troops arrived in Saigon. 400 uniformed army personnel were
sent to operate two helicopter units. The Kennedy Administration, however,
said that the troops were not meant for combat. In December 1962, the
United States had 11 200 troops in South Vietnam.
In the meanwhile, the Diem government was unable to defeat the communists.
They were also unable to cope with the growing unrest of the South
Vietnamese Buddhists, with many of them burning themselves to death in
protest of the war. Lots were arrested and charged of undermining the
government. The government claimed that the Buddhist groups had been
infiltrated by communists and politically hostile persons.
On 1 November 1963 the Diem government was overthrown in a military coup
and Diem was executed. A new government, headed by General Duong Van Minh,
was established.
President Kennedy wanted to keep South Vietnam from having a communistic
government and before his inauguration, he and President Eisenhower had
several discussions about the Vietnam issue. Quite often Vietnam became
centre of their discussion, and Kennedy felt great concern about Vietnam.
11 October 1963, McGeorge Bundy signed the National Security Action
Memorandum No. 263. He wrote that President Kennedy had said no formal
announcement should be made on the plans to withdraw 1 000 military
personnel by the end of 1963. But when Secretary of Defense, Robert
McNamara, returned from Saigon, he and Kennedy agreed that an announcement
should be made on the subject.
President Kennedy was determined to let the public believe he had all
intentions to carry on with the war in Vietnam. In 1963, Kennedy's special
counsellor, Arthur M. Schlesinger said "Kennedy was still playing out his
public hand while secretly wondering how to get out." This gives us a
clear view that he in fact intended to withdraw regardless of victory, by
mid-1965. President Kennedy supported a full military withdrawal from
Vietnam, but he said "if he announced a withdrawal of American military
personnel from Vietnam before the 1964 election, there would be a wild
conservative outcry against returning him to the Presidency for a second
term." Further he said in a private comment to the White House aide,
Kenneth O'Donnell, "In 1965, I'll become one of the most unpopular
Presidents in history. I'll be damned everywhere as a Communist appeaser.
But I don't care. If I tried to pull out completely now from Vietnam, we
would have another Joe McCarthy scare on our hands, but I can do it after
I'm reelected. So we had better make damned sure that I am reelected." It
was very important for President Kennedy not to let the public know his
withdrawal plans. In a very confusing press conference on 14 November
1963, he said the Honolulu conference that was to come, would concentrate
on "how we can intensify the struggle, how we can bring Americans out of
there. Now that is our object, to bring Americans out of there."
In 1963, the American author and historian, John Newman, said "Secretary
of Defense, Robert McNamara, was determined to execute the President's
intent: A genuine withdrawal from Vietnam." He also mentions that McNamara
gave instructions to General Harkins to come up with a plan to "wrap
things up and come home."
In 1967, the Director of State Department Intelligence, Roger Hilsman,
claimed President Kennedy intended to withdraw from Vietnam. He also said
Kennedy before his death had begun to implement a plan to withdraw from
Vietnam.
In a review of a biography about Robert McNamara in 1993, Robert Kuttner,
a reporter in the Boston Globe, wrote "with Kennedy, Robert McNamara
embraced a plan to increase assistance but turn the show over to the
Vietnamese, win or lose, by 1965." Deborah Shapley, an American author,
wrote in her book "Promise" that McNamara had told her he and Kennedy had
agreed to withdraw from Vietnam without victory.
Considering that three of the most prominent associates of the President
refute the existence of a withdrawal plan, questions if there ever was
one. Among these are the President's own brother, Robert Francis Kennedy,
the Attorney General. The other two is Kennedy's special counsellor and
friend, Arthur M. Schlesinger, and Kennedy's first appointed official,
Theodore Sorenson.
Schlesinger has different opinions of Kennedy's withdrawal plans. In his
book, "A thousand days", he gives no indication of Kennedy even
considering withdrawal. "A thousand days" gives a day by day review of the
Kennedy Adminstration and the only indication of withdrawal the book gives
is McNamara's statement on the withdrawal of troops by the end of 1963.
Schlesinger claims Kennedy had a fear of upsetting the world balance if
the United States were to withdraw. Further he writes that Kennedy in 1963
said there was a need to establish a stabile and "friendly" government in
South Vietnam in order for the country to maintain its independence. For
the United States to go back on their promise on this issue would mean a
full collapse of South Vietnam, and even Southeast Asia. "So we are going
to stay there," Kennedy stated in a press conference in spring of 1963.
Sorenson seems to be quite certain on the issue of withdrawal. There was
no withdrawal plan. Sorenson claimed that Kennedy felt the free world
security was severely threatened if South Vietnam was lost and Southeast
Asia was to fall in the hands of the communistic China. According to
Sorenson Kennedy's commitment to help South Vietnam was carried out to its
fullest. Kennedy steadily increased the military strength from 2000 troops
in 1961 to 15 500 at the end of 1963. Kennedy had said a withdrawal from
Vietnam would just make it easier for the communists, leading Sorenson to
believe there was no plan.
In 1962, President Kennedy's brother, Robert, made a statement on the
Vietnam issue saying "the solution lies in our winning it. This is what
the President intends to do. We will remain here until we do." The
Attorney General's own understanding of his brother's policies, was to win
the war. Therefore he fully supported President Johnson's escalation in
1965. Later on, Robert F. Kennedy changed his policies, turning to one of
the most prominent critics towards Johnson's war policies.
2000-2001 Christoffer Hansen All rights reserved
Defend The Flag
The wall is full with names of sons
That lost their lives to foreign guns.
Who's to blame? "We're not the ones."
And with these words each leader runs.
Who are these men we pick to lead
That waste our youth and make them bleed?
These must be men of awful need
That can commit this dreadful deed.
These wretched men who live to lie
Are not the ones that fight and die.
They cause this woe and merely sigh
While mother's hearts are made to cry.
"Defend the flag-this is the way."
We never question what they say.
But pain and death will end the day
And in the earth our children lay.
We ask our youth their lives to lend
While our leaders strut and spend.
It's off to Hell these leaders send
Then this madness just might end.
Raymond
|
