Raymond wrote:
> MC Ammo, Clips and Primers
>
> After WWII, Albania was the only European nation to go Communist
> without having been invaded by the Soviet Union. It was also Europe's
> poorest country and the only one with a Muslim majority. As a result,
> it became part of the American policy to assist Italy in the
> destruction of the Albanian government. Italy had occupied Albania
> throughout WWII.
>
> On March 23, 1964, Mr.R.W. Botts, District Manager, Winchester-Western
> Division of Olin, told the FBI that the Western Cartridge Company had
> manufactured a quantity of 6.5 mm Mannlicher Carcano ammunition for
> the Italian Government during WWII." At the end of the war the Italian
That is not correct. The Winchester-Western Division manufactured the
ammo in response to a DoD contract in 1954, after the war.
> Carcano rifle, and no telling how much of this type ammunition, was
> sold to the United States gun brokers and
> dealers and was eventually distributed by direct sales to wholesalers,
> retailers, and individual purchasers." (CE.No.2694)
>
No telling? Wrong. About half of the 4 million round production lots.
> By the time that the US decided to overthrow the Hoxha government,
> there was very little Italian ammo for MC's left in Italy, so Western
> was contracted to supply the necessary ammo. When the attempt failed,
> the ammo was put into storage . It reappeared when the plans were in
> progress to invade Cuba. Both the surplus rifles and Italian ammo were
> used as well as some of the Western ammo.
The contract was not issued until 1954.
>
> John Masen, owner of Masen's Gun Shop, in Dallas, bought 10 boxes of
> Western ammo from John Brinegar, owner of The Gun Shop, also in
> Dallas. He sold the 10 boxes to individuals. All of this ammo had a
> military load. Later, in the summer of 1963, he bought 10 more boxes
> of Western from Brinegar. Since this ammo was used mostly for deer
> hunting, he "pulled" the bullets in the last batch and reloaded it
> with a hunting type bullet (lead nose).Brinegar testified that "the
> 6.5 mm rifle was rather common in the Dallas area and he felt that the
> larger gun dealers, pawn shops, s****ting goods, and H.L.Green Company
> Stores would have handled the 6.5 mm MC Western ammo, as he recalled
> seeing ads for this 6.5 western ammo."( CE Ex.
> No. 2694.)
>
Yes, the WWC ammo was available locally and via mail order. No one knows
where Oswald bought his.
> Al Yeargan, who was manager of the fourth floor Gun Dept. , at
> Green's , testified that he sold both the rifle and the Italian ammo,
> but never did sell any of the Western ammo.
>
> Some researchers wondered why LHO did not buy his ammo from Klein's.
> It could be that Klein's policy warned buyers that "Hand gun orders,
> and orders with ammo , are ****pped express, charges collect. "
> Surely , Lee knew that he could get ammo in Dallas without the express
> ****pping and the charges. Also. I'm sure that Lee knew about the aging
> Italian ammo and the misfires, and also knew about the better Western
> ammo.
>
Most likely, but there is no absolute proof.
> The Italian ammo was all military loaded and not desired by hunters,
> so many dealers reloaded the shells with soft point projectiles.
>
OK.
> The MC ammo came in preloaded clips. This ammo quickly disappeared and
> these casings could not be reloaded because all ammo, other than
> American, used the Berdan primer. All Western had the American Boxer
I've heard of people reloading it, but it requires too much work to be
practical and the cartridge brass is suspect.
> primer. Because so many MCs were sold in America, there was a need for
> Carcano rounds, and since none was being manufactured, a company in
> Sweden, NORMA by name, began selling 6.5 mm ammo to Carcano owners.
Yes, much more reliable.
> The NORMA ammo contained a "soft-point" bullet and it used the Boxer
> primer, so the consumer could do his own reloading. The round is
> identifiable by the Norma name on the bottom of the shell rim, along
> with the 6.5 mm marking
>
Norma also made the FMJ military round. I have a box of them.
> An article, written by Charles H.Yust,Jr. (Some Interesting Clips)
> appeared in the June 1960 issue of American Rifleman. On P.47, a photo
> and description of the clip operation appears. As follows:
> ITALY- Clip for Model 1891 6.5 mm. Mannlicher Carcano rifle and
> carbine employing Mannlicher-type magazine. Holds 6 cartridges. Made
> of brass and tinned blued Parkerized and cadmium - plated steel, clip
> is held in magazine until last round is used, and then PUSHED OUT
> BOTTOM of magazine when new clip is forced in from top. Clip was also
> used with Vetterli rifles and carbines altered during World War 1 to
> 6.5 mm Mannlicher-type magazine. In 1938, when Italy increased caliber
> of rifle and carbine to 7.35 mm.,same magazine and clip were
> retained.
>
Which is so supposed to prove what?
> The original factory filled clip (SMI) should not fall out when last
> round is chambered as re****ted. However, numerous clips were made to
> accommodate surplus ammo when an original Italian clip was not
> available. Some were even homemade. The Dallas clip was in the weapon
> when found. It was empty and a round was found in the chamber. The
> clip did not fall out. It was an original Italian clip which had been
> emptied at some point and refilled with the Western ammo. Probably
> because, by 1963, there were re****ts of misfires with the Italian
> ammo. If you are on a mission to kill the most powerful man in the
> world, I think it wise to use more reliable ammo.
>
Oswald did not buy his rifle intending to shoot the President in March
1963. Norma ammo is always more expensive.
> J. Edgar Hoover sent J.Lee Rankin (W.Comm) a letter dated June 2,
> 1964, regarding the marks made on the shell casings found in the
> TSBD, along with marks made on the live round in the weapon that was
> found. All, except CE 543, the dented casing found on the floor with
> the other two casings, had marks made by the MAGAZINE FOLLOWER,
> indicating that they all had been loaded and extracted numerous times
> since a follower normally touches only the bottom round in the six
> round clip. SEE CE No. 2968.
>
> Hoover's reference to the magazine follower is confusing since the
> magazine of the Carcano does not use a follower. It is one of the few
> rifles that uses an ELEVATOR instead of a follower. It is possible
> that Hoover did not know the difference , but there is a distinct
Why should Hoover know the difference?
> difference.They both do the same operation of pu****ng the rounds up
> through the clip, but an elevator would make entirely different marks
> than would a follower. The magazine of a MC is the projection
> Mannlicher type, formed by a continuation forward of the trigger
> guard. And, the elevator bears directly on the bottom cartridge in the
> clip and does not carry a follower. This is possible because the
> cartridge is rimless and permits the use of a straight clip. I don't
> believe that C 6, also designated as CE 543 (the dented casing), was
> fired from the M/C that day, which means that only two shots were
> fired from the Carcano and from the TSBD.
>
The dented cartridge WAS fired that day. It was dented during the
ejection process.
> Hoover ended his letter with this sentence: It is pointed out that if
> two or more cartridges are loaded into the clip of C 14, only the
> bottom cartridge will be marked by the MAGAZINE FOLLOWER
>
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