On Mar 7, 7:15 pm, YoHarvey <bailey...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> On Mar 7, 7:38 pm, Raymond <Bluerhy...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Mar 7, 1:42=EF=BF=BDam, Walt <papakochenb...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
> > > On 6 Mar, 17:07, Raymond <Bluerhy...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
> > > > MC Ammo, Clips and Primers
>
> > > > After WWII, Albania was the only European nation to go Communist
> > > > without having been invaded by the Soviet Union. It was also
Europe'=
s
> > > > poorest country and the only one with a Muslim majority. As a
result=
,
> > > > it became part of the American policy to assist Italy in the
> > > > destruction of the Albanian government. Italy had occupied Albania
> > > > throughout WWII.
>
> > > > On March 23, 1964, Mr.R.W. Botts, District Manager,
Winchester-Weste=
rn
> > > > Division of Olin, told the FBI that the Western Cartridge Company
ha=
d
> > > > manufactured a quantity of 6.5 mm Mannlicher Carcano ammunition
for
> > > > the Italian Government during WWII." At the end of the war the
Itali=
an
> > > > Carcano rifle, and no telling how much of this type ammunition,
was
> > > > sold to the United States =EF=BF=BDgun brokers and
> > > > dealers and was eventually distributed by direct sales to
wholesaler=
s,
> > > > retailers, and individual purchasers." (CE.No.2694)
>
> > > > By the time that the US decided to overthrow the Hoxha government,
> > > > there was very little Italian ammo for MC's left in Italy, so
Wester=
n
> > > > was contracted to supply the necessary ammo. When the attempt
failed=
,
> > > > the ammo was put into storage . It reappeared when the plans were
in=
> > > > progress to invade Cuba. Both the surplus rifles and Italian ammo
we=
re
> > > > used as well as some of the Western ammo.
>
> > > > John Masen, owner of Masen's Gun Shop, in Dallas, bought 10 boxes
of=
> > > > Western ammo from John Brinegar, owner of The Gun Shop, also in
> > > > Dallas. He sold the 10 boxes to individuals. All of this ammo had
a
> > > > military load. Later, in the summer of 1963, he bought 10 more
boxes=
> > > > of Western from Brinegar. Since this ammo was used mostly for deer
> > > > hunting, he "pulled" the bullets in the last batch and reloaded it
> > > > with a hunting type bullet (lead nose).Brinegar testified that
"the
> > > > 6.5 mm rifle was rather common in the Dallas area and he felt that
t=
he
> > > > larger gun dealers, pawn shops, s****ting goods, and H.L.Green
Compan=
y
> > > > Stores would have handled the 6.5 mm MC Western ammo, as he
recalled=
> > > > seeing ads for this 6.5 western ammo."( CE Ex.
> > > > No. 2694.)
>
> > > > Al Yeargan, who was manager of the fourth floor Gun Dept. , at
> > > > Green's , testified that he sold both the rifle and the Italian
ammo=
,
> > > > but never did sell any of the Western ammo.
>
> > > > Some researchers wondered why LHO did not buy his ammo from
Klein's.=
> > > > It could be that Klein's policy warned buyers that "Hand gun
orders,=
> > > > and orders with ammo , are ****pped express, charges collect. "
> > > > Surely , Lee knew that he could get ammo in Dallas without the
expre=
ss
> > > > ****pping and the charges. Also. I'm sure that Lee knew about the
agi=
ng
> > > > Italian ammo and the misfires, and also knew about the better
Wester=
n
> > > > ammo.
>
> > > > The Italian ammo was all military loaded and not desired by
hunters,=
> > > > so many dealers reloaded the shells with soft point projectiles.
>
> > > > The MC ammo came in preloaded clips. This ammo quickly disappeared
a=
nd
> > > > these casings could not be reloaded because all ammo, other than
> > > > American, used the Berdan primer. All Western had =EF=BF=BDthe
Ameri=
can Boxer
> > > > primer. Because so many MCs were sold in America, there was a need
f=
or
> > > > Carcano rounds, and since none was being manufactured, a company
in
> > > > Sweden, NORMA by name, began selling 6.5 mm ammo to Carcano
owners.
> > > > The NORMA ammo contained a "soft-point" bullet and it used the
Boxer=
> > > > primer, so the consumer could do his own reloading. The round is
> > > > identifiable by the Norma name on the bottom of the shell rim,
along=
> > > > with the 6.5 mm marking
>
> > > > An article, written by Charles H.Yust,Jr. (Some Interesting Clips)
> > > > appeared in the June 1960 issue of American Rifleman. On P.47, a
pho=
to
> > > > and description of the clip operation appears. As follows:
> > > > =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD =EF=BF=BD ITALY- Clip for Model 1891 6.5 mm.
Man=
nlicher Carcano rifle and
> > > > carbine employing Mannlicher-type magazine. Holds 6 cartridges.
Made=
> > > > of brass and tinned blued Parkerized and cadmium - plated steel,
cli=
p
> > > > is held in magazine until last round is used, and then PUSHED OUT
> > > > BOTTOM of magazine when new clip is forced in from top. Clip was
als=
o
> > > > used with Vetterli rifles and carbines altered during World War 1
to=
> > > > 6.5 mm Mannlicher-type magazine. In 1938, when Italy increased
calib=
er
> > > > of rifle and carbine to 7.35 mm.,same magazine and clip were
> > > > retained.
>
> > > > The original factory filled clip (SMI) should not fall out when
last=
> > > > round is chambered as re****ted. However, numerous clips were made
to=
> > > > accommodate surplus ammo when an original Italian clip was not
> > > > available. Some were even homemade. The Dallas clip was in the
weapo=
n
> > > > when found. It was empty and a round was found in the chamber. The
> > > > clip did not fall out. It was an original Italian clip which had
bee=
n
> > > > emptied at some point and refilled with the Western ammo. Probably
> > > > because, by 1963, there were re****ts of misfires with the Italian
> > > > ammo. If you are on a mission to kill the most powerful man in the
> > > > world, I think it wise to use more reliable ammo.
>
> > > > =EF=BF=BDJ. Edgar Hoover sent J.Lee Rankin (W.Comm) a letter dated
=
=EF=BF=BDJune 2,
> > > > 1964, regarding the marks made =EF=BF=BDon the shell casings found
i=
n the
> > > > TSBD, along with marks made on the live round in the weapon that
was=
> > > > found. All, except CE 543, the dented casing found on the floor
with=
> > > > the other two casings, had marks made by the MAGAZINE FOLLOWER,
> > > > indicating that they all had been loaded and extracted numerous
time=
s
> > > > since a follower normally touches only the bottom round in the six
> > > > round clip. SEE CE No. 2968.
>
> > > > Hoover's reference to the magazine follower is confusing since the
> > > > magazine of the Carcano does not use a follower. It is one of the
fe=
w
> > > > rifles that uses an ELEVATOR instead of a follower. It is possible
> > > > that Hoover did not know the difference , but there is a distinct
> > > > difference.They both do the same operation of pu****ng the rounds
up
> > > > through the clip, but an elevator would make entirely different
mark=
s
> > > > than would a follower. The magazine of a MC is the projection
> > > > Mannlicher type, formed by a continuation forward of the trigger
> > > > guard. And, the elevator bears directly on the bottom cartridge in
t=
he
> > > > clip and does not carry a follower. This is possible
=EF=BF=BDbecaus=
e the
> > > > cartridge is rimless and permits the use of a straight clip. I
don't=
> > > > believe that C 6, also designated as CE 543 (the dented casing),
was=
> > > > fired from the M/C that day, which means that only two shots were
> > > > fired from the Carcano and from the TSBD.
>
> > > Would you believe that NO shots were fired from the TSBD rifle
(C2766)=
> > > that day.....
>
> > No, I would not...... The evidence is overwhelming that at least two
> > shots were fired from the TSBD and from the weapon C 2766 that day.
> > However, I will be happy to read your story.
>
> > > > Hoover ended his letter with this sentence: It is pointed out that
i=
f
> > > > two or more cartridges are loaded into the clip of C 14, only the
> > > > bottom cartridge will be marked =EF=BF=BDby the MAGAZINE FOLLOWER-
H=
ide quoted text -
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> > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
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> Would you believe that NO shots were fired from the TSBD rifle (C2766)
> that day.....
>
> Read above. The SINGLE most ignorant comment I've EVER heard in 44
years.=
> It pretty much typifies the CT community, does it not?
44 years, you've served big time -- what the hell kind of assassination
discussions do you have in the joint? You ****ing losah..... LMFAO! You
haven't heard ****, only what your handler feeds you........
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