Re: JUDYTH: National Science Foundation scholar****p and grants

On 3 May 2008 01:21:39 -0400, howardp <howpl@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:

>On May 2, 7:25?pm, gateway...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 (Dixie M Dea) wrote:
>> Anthony said.....
>>
>> Barb's only goal is to dig up dirt.
>>
>> It's a pity that no one bothered to do any serious fact checking before
>> her book was published. It's a pity that 99.99% of the bandwidth here
is
>> wasted on attacking Judyth.
>>
>> __________________________________
>>
>> Barb's only goal is in one thing and that is in learning, the
>> truth.....just as most of us want to know. There is no dirt digging
going
>> on. No one has attempted to try and find out anything scandulous about
>> Judyth to do with her own personal life....that is not of any
im****tance
>> to us. No one has attempted to go beyond what she herself has claimed.
>> But, when someone has made extroadinary claims regarding their past
life
>> and goes so far as to write a book about it, then extroadinary proof is
>> required, to go along with it.
>>
>> After all, these claims involve a tragedy in our history that is of
utmost
>> im****tance to us, particulary those of us, who attempt to study the JFK
>> Assassination. It also involves the accusation of Lee Harvey Oswald as
>> JFK's assassin. Some here, do believe he was guilty and others of us do
>> not believe that he was. Judyth claims to have played a role in LHO's
life
>> before the assassination. I do believe we need to know if her claims
are
>> true or not.
>>
>> If she had written a fictional book, no one would care to try and dig
>> deeper for the truth. It would just merely be a good story. But, that
has
>> not been the case and her claims were told as though true. Most of us
>> cannot just take someones word on such claims. We need to know whether
the
>> claims are actually true or just fantasy.
>>
>> It is my strong belief, that if Barb discovered a claim to be true, she
>> would disclose that fact, just as she will disclose any descrepencis
she
>> has discovered. ?Barb, is willing to put her time and effort into
checking
>> out claims, which I don't feel warrants the hostility and redicule that
>> she has received from the Judyth sup****ters.....irregardless of how
much
>> it seems to upset them. Do we not deserve the truth? With no proof for
all
>> the claims, we are never going to know the truth, unless someone does
as
>> Barb, is attempting to do.
>>
>> Many times I have stated that I have never believed Judyth's claims,
from
>> when I first read about her, by Amy Goodwin, at Salon.com. Somehow it
just
>> made my own built-in BS detector rise sky-high. Was that fair of me?
>> Probably not, and I will admit that. But sometimes, we just seem to
>> believe something or we don't. All the years with Judyth on the various
>> forums, I never changed my initial opinion. However, when her book was
>> finally published, I actualy ordered it immediately. I also made a
>> decision to attempt to read it with an open mind, which I did not
>> previously have. I also beliieved I was going to finally see all the
>> promised do***netaion that would prove her claims. ?Throughout her
book, I
>> kept asking myself if certain claims might actually be true. Yet, by
the
>> time I finished the book, I realized that if any ****tion of her claims
>> were even possibly true, then she messed it all up with both fantasy
and
>> embellishment in order to enhance the claims. In addition, there was
way
>> too many excuses for different things, including why she didn't have
some
>> proof of one thing or another. The promised do***entation was not
there!
>> Many claims were overkill in strange sort of apologizing & explaining
>> different reasons for different claims. I was finally able to conclude
>> that there was just no way possible to know what is truth and what
isn't,
>> because of all the extra embellishments to almost every claim. Yet,
>> actually that seems to be what Barb has been discovering too.
>>
>> The explanations I have read so far, in response to Barb's discoveries,
>> (which is of course only my own opinion) is that it only appears to be
an
>> altering of former claims, to fit the new discoveries. Again, only
claims
>> without any proof. I find it rather problematic that anyone would keep
>> very minor tokens of the past, that don't actually even prove anything,
>> for 45 years and yet not keep items of real significance, such as
>> meaningful Papers they had presented at some event....and then to also
>> only offer excuses, as to why they are unavailable. So, it still all
boils
>> down to if we are willing to believe or disbelieve claims without
proof.
>> That is acceptable to some and yet not to most of us.
>>
>> I am in agreement that there is too much redicule and hostility
expressed
>> with both the believers and disbelievers. But I especially see mostly
>> redicule and hostility, along with snide remarks, coming from the
>> sup****ters. That is, rather then attempting to actually do any digging
or
>> even in the discussing of real issues, I see no attempt to try and find
>> the truth, in the midst of descrepencies. It strikes me that they only
>> need blind faith to ascept her claims as the truth. Yet that is what
Barb
>> is attempting to do, rather then to just accept that Judyth has been
>> untruthful....and that just seems to upset the sup****ters. One person
even
>> accused her of frantcally searching, yet at the same time, this person
was
>> actually the one frantically attempting to break down the doors of
>> Roswell, hoping to find someone to recant what Barb was told and also
>> attempting to reduce the informer to one of minor significance in
actually
>> knowing anything. Barb gave ample op****tunuty for someone who did know
>> (Mirand) to recant and he did not do so, which is quite clear, from
even
>> Judyth's latest account.
>>
>> I have no idea of how or when this is all going to end, but it
certainly
>> has consumed us for many years now.....possibly too many years!
>>
>> Dixie
>
>You write a thoughtful post and deserve a more extended response than I 
>have time to give now. The problem with Barb is not her "digging"; it is 
>her analysis. I don't think she ever expected to get to the point where 
>Judyth is lone presenter of a paper based on her work on melanoma at 
>Roswell Park. She only has to take this dirt a couple of more steps and 
>she will have shown it likely that Judyth's story is NOT easily
dismissed, 
>howevermuch one likes her demeanor or her book. The fact is, Barb is 
>getting nowhere fast. If you want "proof," where is the proof that the 
>Gulf of Tonkin incident happened? This is not a courtroom and it would be

>ridiculous to ask for proof of the plot, much less her role in it, to
come 
>in the form of physical evidence -- a key do***ent or the likely.
Throwing 
>around words like "proof" is a dangerously misguided business when the 
>word has different meanings in different contexts and there are varying 
>standards we use in life to generate our opinions pro and con --
>
>(1) gut feeling,
>(2) best explanation given the totality of the evidence
>(3) preponderance of the evidence
>(4) beyond a reasonable doubt
>(5) beyond the shadow of a doubt
>(6) moral certainty
>(7) mathematical certainty
>
>As you note, gut feeling doesn't cut it. But best explanation is a damned

>good showing. For those who want more, including me, keep your eyes on 
>Barbara's research. She is now in the process of taking us to the next 
>step, whether she realizes it or not.
>

Barb has turned up some lies and key omissions in the Judyth story.

If you are crowing about the fact that she really did present a paper,
that only proves what all of us have said from point zero -- she was a
good science student.

I'm afraid that doesn't get you very far.

..John
--------------
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