Andrew Mason wrote:
> David Von Pein wrote:
>
>> WORTH AN INSTANT REPLAY --- my thoughts on this matter, which have not
>> changed at all since I wrote the two articles/posts below. The SBT
>> lives, and for a number of different reasons, not the least of which
>> is just garden-variety common sense:
>>
>> ======================================
>>
>>
www.google.com/group/alt.assassination.jfk/browse_thread/thread/7f8d9865c0151610
>>
>>
>>
>>>>> "His [Dale K. Myers'] animation deceptively depicts an under-sized
>>
>> Connally model on a seat 3.5 inches further from the door than the
>> seat occupied by the flesh and bone Connally, and that, when these
>> mistakes are corrected, the bullet exiting Kennedy's neck strikes
>> Connally in the middle of his back." <<<
>>
>>
>> Pat Speer's 3.5-inch differential regarding the jump-seat measurement
>> is (as is usually the case with conspiracy theorists) a lot of "to-do"
>> about nothing.
>>
>> Why?
>>
>> Because even if John Connally's jump seat was, indeed, located only
>> 2.5 inches from the right door of the limousine (and apparently that
>> might very well be the accurate measurement, based on the diagram
>> linked below)*,
>
> Does it strike anyone else that this appears to be an astounding
> admission of Myers that he built his computer model without knowing
this?
>
Myers damn well knows it. He misspoke.
>
>> the bullet that went clear through President Kennedy's body and
>> positively "made its exit through the anterior surface of the neck" (a
>> quote from the "Summary" of JFK's official Autopsy Re****t) was a
>> bullet that had no choice but to strike either John Connally's body or
>> the interior of the limousine (given the bullet's downward trajectory
>> which was taking it right toward the middle of the vehicle).
>>
>> And since we know that the bullet did not strike the limo's interior,
>> and we know it also didn't hit any OTHER (non-JBC) victim(s) in the
>> car....what other choice is there? The bullet, regardless of exact
>> jump-seat placement in relation to the car's right-hand door (whether
>> it be 6 inches or 2.5 inches), HAD TO HAVE HIT JOHN B. CONNALLY AFTER
>> IT LEFT KENNEDY'S NECK. It is THE only reasonable conclusion.
>
> Agreed. But why does it have to hit him in the impossible location on
> his right armpit?
>
>>
>> * = When we look at the following two schematics of the 1961
>> Presidential Lincoln limousine (the top one being an animated
>> schematic-type image that can be found at Dale Myers' excellent
>> wesite; scroll down a little bit to find it), we can see that
>> Connally's jump seat is definitely "inboard" of the back seat on which
>> JFK was sitting when the assassination occurred (and from photos, it's
>> also fairly clear that JFK was sitting just about as FAR RIGHT on that
>> seat as humanly possible, probably to make it easier to put his arm up
>> on the window ledge and wave at the big crowds in Dallas, which is a
>> "Far Right" determination that shouldn't be overlooked either, because
>> it places Kennedy as far to the RIGHT of Connally's jump seat as would
>> be humanly possible--per some of the pictures taken on 11/22/63).....
>
> If JFK was indeed seated as far right as humanly possible, the right
> side of his rib cage would be pressed against the side of the car,
> putting his spine 7 inches from the side of the car. That would make it
> difficult for his arm to come down at a 45 degree angle to rest on the
> top of the car as seen.
>
> But even with JFK that far right, with JBC in the middle of his jump
> seat, his right shoulder extends to the edge of the jump seat which is
> 2.5 inches from the door and 3.5 inches from the right side of JFK's
> right ribcage. If you add 2.5 inches for the shoulder, JBC would still
> only be 6 inches inside JFK, not nearly enough for a bullet moving right
> to left to strike JBC on the right armpit. And that is if JFK is as far
> right as humanly possible which is not the case here.
>
>
>
>
>>
>> http://jfkfiles.com/jfk/html/models.htm
>>
>> http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee290/JFK22NOV63/figure2.jpg
>>
>> .....And per the schematic in the bottom link above, the jump seat on
>> the right side of the limo was "2.50 inches" from the right door (and
>> the left jump seat was "2.25 inches" from the left door).
>>
>> And when we COMPARE the above two charts, we find that they are
>> IDENTICAL with respect to the distance between the right door and John
>> Connally's jump seat. (They sure look identical to me anyway.)
>>
>>
>> Main point being: Dale K. Myers is not trying to pull the wool over
>> anyone's eyes at all. He's got the schematic (in animated form) right
>> there on his website for all to see...i.e., the schematic that he used
>> for his computer model, which was then laid on top of the Zapruder
>> Film to form Dale's completed 3D model of the assassination.
>>
>> And the Single-Bullet Theory WORKS and FITS perfectly, based on that
>> schematic that can be found right on Dale's website. (And even though
>> there aren't any detailed measurements that are readable on Dale's
>> animated version of the schematic of the limousine, we can, as I
>> mentioned, compare Mr. Myers' chart to the larger Hess & Eisenhardt
>> limo chart that I also linked above (which does include the
>> measurements), and we can toggle between the two charts and see that
>> the distance between the inside of the right door and the right-hand
>> jump seat is just about as identical as you can get in both of those
>> charts/schematics (by way of "eyeballing" the two charts anyway).
>>
>> Dale K. Myers' exacting animation project ("Secrets Of A Homicide") is
>> a great achievement in animation, IMO. And it's a project that Mr.
>> Myers deserves the right to be very proud of. His animation model has
>> virtually proven the doability, viability, workability, and (above
>> all) the PROBABILITY of the Single-Bullet Theory.
>>
>> And, in my view, even the most hardened anti-SBT conspiracy theorist
>> would be wise to take a good long look at Mr. Myers' website and his
>> animation project (and buy the DVD of the 2003 ABC-TV do***entary "The
>> Kennedy Assassination--Beyond Conspiracy", which is a program that
>> includes several clips from Dale's animation). And it should be
>> blatantly obvious that Myers has done his homework here....and has
>> gone to extreme measures to ensure accuracy within his animation
project.
>>
>> Let me ask the following question one more time (I've made this
>> inquiry in the past as well, without receiving any satisfactory answer
>> from any anti-SBT conspiracy theorist):
>>
>> If the animation project authored by Dale K. Myers is dead-wrong in
>> its depiction of the Single-Bullet Theory as being a one-bullet
>> scenario that is not only POSSIBLE, but very, very likely a rock-solid
>> FACT in all respects, then I want to know HOW in this wide world of
>> ours it would have been even remotely possible for Dale Myers to have
>> stuck THAT CLOSE TO THE REAL EVIDENCE in the case and to have produced
>> a BOGUS animation (as CTers believe he has done) that comes so
>> incredibly CLOSE to what a true and NON-BOGUS animation would have
>> looked like?
>>
>> To clarify what I mean by that --- The depiction of the victims (JFK &
>> JBC) in Myers' animation (along with the general configuration of the
>> limo and of Dealey Plaza and of the TSBD and of Elm Street, etc.) are
>> certainly NOT so far "out of whack" that any CTer can look at it and
>> say this: "Myers is full of *beep* here! He doesn't have this model
>> even CLOSE to being accurate in any way!"
>>
>> So, even if the anti-SBT crowd wants to nitpick about the size of John
>> Connally's head in Dale's 3D model, or about the height of the limo's
>> crossbar seen in the animation.....those same CTers haven't a leg to
>> stand on when it comes to the big-ticket question that no conspiracist
>> has EVER been able to reconcile--and that question is:
>>
>> If the SBT is only a wet dream of "WC ****lls" (et al), then how in the
>> world did multiple gunmen firing multiple bullets (usually at least
>> THREE missiles, per CTer accounts) into the bodies of two victims
>> manage to MIMIC A PERFECT (or damn near perfect-looking) SINGLE-BULLET
>> EVENT with those multiple bullets?
>
> There was only one shooter. You are using circular reasoning to prove
> the SBT, based on the assumption that only alternative to the SBT is a
> multiple shooter scenario. That is not what the evidence shows.
>
> Andrew Mason
>
>
>>
>> I'm still waiting for a single SBT-hating conspiracy theorist to
>> logically and believably answer the above question.
>>
>> In short.....the Single-Bullet Theory makes a whole bunch of (common)
>> sense. (Especially when placed up against ANY alternate scenario that
>> might be used to try and knock it down.)
>>
>> David Von Pein
>> April 18, 2008
>>
>>
>> =========================================
>>
>>
>>
www.google.com/group/alt.assassination.jfk/browse_thread/thread/7f8d9865c0151610/cba5aa8a8dad42be?hl=en&#cba5aa8a8dad42be
>>
>>
>> PAT SPEER SAID:
>>
>>
>>>>> "James, you're accepting, without any evidence, that the bullet
wounds
>>
>> are in alignment and project back to the sniper's nest. Based on what?
>> The two main proofs of this are Canning's trajectories, debunked by a
>> number of people including Myers, and Myers' trajectories, debunked by
>> me." <<<
>>
>>
>> DAVID VON PEIN INTERJECTS:
>>
>> Pat,
>>
>> Let me try to get a firmer grip on what you think you've "debunked"
>> with respect to Dale Myers' "Secrets Of A Homicide" 3D computer
>> model.....
>>
>> You're contending that Myers fudged some data, or skewed a limousine
>> measurement (the "Number of inches the jump seat was from the right
>> door" measurement, that is)....correct?
>>
>> And Pat stated the following in an earlier Internet post:
>>
>>
>> "{Dale K. Myers'} animation deceptively depicts an under-sized
>> Connally model on a seat 3.5 inches further from the door than the
>> seat occupied by the flesh and bone Connally, and...when these
>> mistakes are corrected, the bullet exiting Kennedy's neck strikes
>> Connally in the middle of his back." -- Patrick Speer; 04/18/08
>>
>>
>> Therefore, per Pat's above quote, if Mr. Myers were to have slid John
>> Connally's jump seat inboard a total of only 2.5 inches from the right
>> door (vs. the "6 inches" that Thomas Kelley of the Secret Service
>> testified was the distance between the right door and the jump seat
>> and is the "6-inch" measurement that Pat Speer is claiming that Myers
>> DID utilize for JBC's seat in Dale's 3D computer model), this would
>> then mean that Governor Connally would have been struck by the bullet
>> "in the middle of his back".
>>
>> But if Myers utilizes the "6 inches from the door" measurement for
>> JBC's jump seat, it would mean that Myers is able to get the bullet
>> wound placed properly at the FAR RIGHT ****tion of JBC's back (near the
>> armpit, which, of course, is where he was hit by a bullet).
>>
>> Is that correct, Patrick?
>>
>> Well, after mulling over these two options afforded Mr. Myers and his
>> animated computerized model, I think Mr. Patrick Speer might have a
>> very big problem when trying to reconcile this possible "3.5-inch"
>> error into any kind of a BIG DEAL or a "lie" by Mr. Myers at all.
>>
>> Why do I say that?
>>
>> Well, mainly because of John Bowden Connally and the known bullet
>> wounds in his body....i.e., we KNOW that Governor Connally was struck
>> in THE BACK by only ONE single bullet on 11/22/63. And we know where
>> exactly that entry wound was located (far-right part of the back, near
>> the right armpit).
>>
>> So, even if some conspiracists want to argue that JBC was hit by more
>> than one bullet (total), there hasn't been a single CTer on the planet
>> (that I'm aware of) who thinks that Connally was struck IN THE BACK by
>> more than one single bullet.
>>
>> Therefore, it seems as though Mr. Speer's whole argument falls flat
>> and is rendered very nearly moot and meaningless.
>>
>> Why?
>>
>> Because:
>>
>> VIA EITHER OF THE DISPUTED JUMP-SEAT MEASUREMENTS (either the 2.5-inch
>> measurement or the 6-inch version), it's obvious that John Connally
>> WOULD STILL HAVE BEEN HIT BY THE BULLET THAT EXITED JOHN KENNEDY'S
>> THROAT.
>>
>> And that is a shooting scenario (i.e., a "Single Bullet Hitting Both
>> Men" scenario) that very few conspiracy theorists embrace at all,
>> regardless of WHERE exactly the jump seat was located.
>>
>> But Mr. Speer is telling us, it seems to me, that John Connally is
>> certainly going to be hit in the back by the bullet coming out of
>> JFK's neck no matter WHERE the jump seat is situated.
>>
>> And as far as that argument goes, I'd fully agree with him....because
>> given the alignment of the two victims in the car....plus the fact
>> they were each struck by a bullet that entered their UPPER
>> BACKS....plus the fact that a bullet almost certainly (beyond a
>> proverbial "reasonable doubt") went clean through John Kennedy's body
>> on a downward trajectory from back to front -- there was simply
>> nowhere else for that bullet to go except into JBC's back after
>> leaving JFK's body.
>>
>> I'll repeat this once again (which I've stated numerous times in the
>> past) -- It's always been my firm belief that a few things regarding
>> the SBT and its details can NEVER be fully known with 100% certainty,
>> with one of the most-crucial of these "unknowable" things being the
>> exact orientation of the victims' bodies to one another at the precise
>> moment the SBT bullet struck them at Z223-Z224 (due to the built-in
>> and obvious analytical limitations of Abraham Zapruder's two-
>> dimensional motion-picture film).
>>
>> I'd also like to point out the following Dale Myers' quote, which can
>> be found on Mr. Myers' website (concerning the "margin of error"
>> within Dale's computer animation project):
>>
>> "From about Zapruder frame 240 through 360, the effect of film grain
>> on the ability to position the occupants in the car accurately is
>> negligible. At their farthest point from Zapruder's camera, it was
>> possible to rotate both JFK and JBC up to 6 degrees in any direction
>> without a perceivable mismatch with the original film. This amount of
>> error dropped to about 4 degrees by Zapruder frame 190 and within 3
>> degrees by Zapruder frame 223. Therefore, the ESTIMATED MARGIN OF
>> ERROR [Myers' emphasis] lies between 3 and 6 degrees, depending on
>> which point in the film is under discussion. The larger figure was
>> used to calculate potential errors in plotting trajectories." -- Dale
>> K. Myers
>>
>>
>> http://jfkfiles.com/jfk/html/kframe.htm
>>
>>
>> PAT SPEER SAID THE FOLLOWING ON APRIL 18, 2008:
>>
>>
>>
>>>>> "Should we tell Bugliosi that his defense of the single-bullet
theory
>>
>> was in large part based on the "erroneous premise" that the jump seat
>> was 6 inches inboard of the door? Or should we assume that Myers, who,
>> after all, was on Bugliosi's payroll, has already set him straight?"
<<<
>>
>>
>> Well, if I were to hazard a guess at what Mr. Bugliosi's reaction
>> would be to the "Distance From The Right Door" controversy (and I
>> don't deny there IS definitely a discrepancy in the official records
>> regarding the precise distance between the door and the jump seat,
>> with Thomas Kelley and Tom Canning saying one thing, and the Hess &
>> Eisenhardt body draft saying something else) -- I'd wager that Vince
>> just might say something like this:
>>
>> Well, even if you're right and Dale Myers is wrong by 3.5 inches --
>> where does your argument really take you? Does it "go anywhere" --
>> except to a different theory that STILL HAS JOHN CONNALLY BEING HIT IN
>> THE BACK BY THE SINGLE BULLET THAT EXITED THE FRONT OF KENNEDY'S NECK?
>>
>> [/VB Mode Off.]
>>
>> I'd like to also offer up something else here....take a look at the
>> third picture from the top on the following webpage from Dale Myers'
>> website:
>>
>> http://jfkfiles.com/jfk/html/concl2b.htm
>>
>> In that computer-animated image, it looks like Connally's jump seat is
>> very close to the right door of the car. It doesn't look like it's any
>> "6 inches" from the door anyway--does it?
>>
>> I cannot deny that it's my impression that Mr. Myers DOES seem to
>> slide JBC's seat more than just 2.5 inches inboard from the right door
>> in the 2004 Discovery Channel do***entary (and, as Pat has also said,
>> the same thing seems to occur in the 2003 ABC-TV special as well,
>> unless my eyes are deceiving me in some manner).
>>
>> But when turning back to that last link to Myers' website I just
>> provided, and focusing on the "Trajectory Cone" that is shown on the
>> left side of the third photo from the top on that webpage --- if
>> Connally's seat is slid further inboard than Mr. Myers has it in that
>> photo, it would mean that the "trajectory [margin-of-error] cone"
>> would have to be ****fted slightly to the WEST on the Dealey Plaza
>> compass.
>>
>> Exactly how far west it would need to be ****fted and adjusted, I don't
>> know. I'm just guessing. But we can see that by moving the cone
>> westward, it completely eliminates the Dal-Tex Building as a source
>> for the SBT shot, and any such adjusted "cone" could very likely still
>> include Oswald's Sniper's-Nest window in the Depository.
>>
>> In any event, any trajectory cone that is ****fted WESTWARD would
>> include ONLY windows in the Book Depository and no other building at
>> all in the whole of Dealey Plaza.
>>
>> And since the ONLY KNOWN AND CONFIRMED SOURCE OF GUNFIRE in Dealey
>> Plaza was the "Oswald window" on the 6th Floor of the TSBD, the "Where
>> Could The Shot Have Come From?" math becomes fairly simple at this
>> point (even WITH an "adjusted" trajectory cone).
>>
>> Or do CTers want to place a SECOND gunman somewhere on the upper
>> floors of the Depository (to accommodate this different "trajectory
>> cone" I'm theorizing about here)? Maybe Elsie Dorman was firing a gun
>> at JFK from her fourth-floor perch, as well as filming the motorcade
>> at the same time.
>>
>> Therefore, in the final analysis (which certain CTers will undoubtedly
>> refer to as another "strawman" argument; but I'd prefer to think of it
>> as a "common-sense" type of argument instead), even WITH a possible
>> (but not proven) "3.5-inch" jump-seat discrepancy in Mr. Myers
>> computer animation, the Warren Commission critics still don't have
>> ANYWHERE TO GO with their anti-SBT arguments and theories.
>>
>> As mentioned earlier, about the only places they can go with this
>> discrepancy, it seems to me, is to a bullet that STILL GOES INTO JOHN
>> CONNALLY'S BACK, with that bullet STILL BEING FIRED FROM THE BOOK
>> DEPOSITORY BUILDING as well.
>>
>>
>> David Von Pein
>> April 23, 2008
>>
>> www.DavidVonPein.blogspot.com
>>
>
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