Talk About Network

Google


Register and Login
Nick
Password
Register create new account Sign up is FREE and you can post replies, new topics, bookmark posts and more!
Recover lost password


Alternative > Assassination JFK > Re: Missing the...
Latest [ Topics | Posts ] Archive Post A New Topic Post a Reply
<< Topic < Post Post 47 of 199 Topic 10385 of 11035
Post > Topic >>

Re: Missing the first shot

by claviger <historiae.fides@[EMAIL PROTECTED] > May 31, 2008 at 03:14 PM

Andrew:

> No. Nellie said that JFK was reacting to his neck wound before the
> second shot (as did Altgens and about 16 others). JBC agreed with her
> because he turned around to his right to see JFK and saw that he was not
> on the right side where he expected to see him. If JFK had been in his
> far right position, JBC would have no difficulty seeing him (see the
> WFAA video of JBC and JFK chatting with JBC turned to his right earlier
> in the motorcade).

Nellie was facing forward at the first shot. She like others, may have
taken no notice thinking it was a motorcycle backfire. Most of the
motorcycle escort were behind the Limousine, so the sound probably
fooled her as it did the driver, Agent Greer. The second shot got her
attention because of her husband=92s body movement. Gov. Connally heard
a shot, which is proof the first shot didn=92t hit him. The victim never
hears the shot that wounds him, because the bullet travels faster than
the speed of sound. Nellie notices JBC is wounded and JFK hands are
raised to his throat. Either the first shot or second shot has wounded
the President. Agent Kellermen testified under oath the President
spoke out that he was hit. This is a puzzle becasue no one else in the
car heard this exclamation. Were the rest of the passengers distracted
by the crowd noise and rumble of the motorcycle escort? Did they hear
someone speak but not hear it distinctly? Did JFK simply brush off the
cement dust and keep waving?

Nellie and John Connally confirm he was wounded by the second shot and
the next shot killed the President. The Zapruder film shows Nellie
looking at JFK after her husband is wounded. Both z224 and z270 would
seem to fit this sequence. Gov. Connally=92s testimony may hold the
clue, with the help of a ten year old girl.
_________________________________________________
WC testimony:

JBC:

We had just made the turn, well, when I heard what I thought was a
shot. I heard this noise which I immediately took to be a rifle shot.
I instinctively turned to my right because the sound appeared to come
from over my right shoulder, so I turned to look back over my right
shoulder, and I saw nothing unusual except just people in the crowd,
but I did not catch the President in the corner of my eye, and I was
interested, because once I heard the shot in my own mind I identified
it as a rifle shot, and I immediately--the only thought that crossed
my mind was that this is an assassination attempt.

So I looked, failing to see him, I was turning to look back over my
left shoulder into the back seat, but I never got that far in my turn.
I got about in the position I am in now facing you, looking a little
bit to the left of center, and then I felt like someone had hit me in
the back.


Texas Monthly interview:

Below is the unedited transcript from interviews with witnesses to the
Kennedy assassination: Rosemary Willis Roach, her sister Linda Willis
Pool, and mother Marilyn Willis; Bill and Gayle Newman; Pierce Allman;
Bobby Hargis and James Leavelle. Interviewed by Joe Nick Patoski

Rosemary: Anyway, it seemed strange to me. Then the next thing I know,
the limousine is turning the corner again. Onto Elm. From Main to
Houston to Elm. And so, just as they start, they've just made that
turn, they're going along, and the first gun shot was fired.
Immediately, I look up to where I thought I heard the sound, and what
I notice is this pigeon, upon the impact ....

Rosemary: As they made the turn from Houston to Elm Street, they'd
just gone a few feet when the first shot rang out, and upon hearing
the sound, my normal body reaction was to look up and follow the sound
that I heard, it was so abrupt. I didn't know what it was, but I was
looking for what I heard. And the pigeons immediately ascended off
that roof of the school book depository building and that's what
caught my eye. My eyes were searching for what I heard and I see the
pigeons, you know, they're scared to death, and take off in abrupt
flight.
_________________________________________________

Both these quotes indicate an early first shot. Connally provides an
im****tant clue. He was turning left when hit. We don't see any turning
left in z270. What we see in that part of the film is JBC frozen in
the same posture for 34 frames (z256 - 290), until Nellie pulls him
down. At no time does he attempt to move to his left. In the Zapruder
film we can see Rosemary running along side the Limousine then look to
the right, stop running, and stand still (z160 - 188). This all takes
place in front of the TSBD. The film corroborates her recall of when
and where she stopped running.

> Not at all. I am saying that the distribution of witness recollections
> which overwhelmingly favours that pattern cannot occur randomly. There
is
> a reason all those witnesses had the same distinct recollection. It is
> impossible for that high a pro****tion of witnesses to independently
> imagine something all the same way. It cannot happen in the real world.
> Either they were in error because of some phenomenon that made them
> imagine the same wrong pattern,(what might that be?) or they agree
because=

> they heard the same pattern.

The number of shots heard by eyewitnesses range from 2 to 8. (A book
author claims 16 shots were fired that day.) One witness heard 8 shots
in 3 volleys. Some very capable witnesses heard only 2 shots. The
sound pattern noticed by a majority of witnesses would sup****t your
theory, the Donahue theory, or the Holland theory (11 seconds from
first to last shot). From z133 to z313 is 180 frames =3D 10 seconds.

In the Z-film JFK appears to have his right hand on his face from z133
- 142. Is he waving, pu****ng his hair back, or bru****ng cement dust
off his face? We can't tell for sure.

> If out of 100 potential witnesses, only five witnesses actally re****t
> observing a phenomenon do you say they are unreliable because
> 95 witnesses did not re****t that observation?

No, because formal logic says you can=92t prove something with a
negative. You can=92t prove a fact by what people didn=92t see, only what
they did see. There are witnesses who saw something bounce off the
street pavement on the first shot. They were in position to see this
happen, while most of the witnesses were not. Just because most
witnesses did not see that event doesn't mean it didn=92t happen.

> The question is whether the witnesses who independently re****ted 3 shots
> and 3 hits are contradicted by other evidence. They aren't.

Of course they are, =93they=94 being one witness: Dave Powers.
 




 199 Posts in Topic:
Missing the first shot
Shizam1@[EMAIL PROTECTED]  2008-05-11 00:50:48 
Re: Missing the first shot
Andrew Mason <a.mason@  2008-05-11 18:48:42 
Re: Missing the first shot
"Jas" <jstel  2008-05-12 00:28:06 
Re: Missing the first shot
Andrew Mason <a.mason@  2008-05-12 16:11:19 
Re: Missing the first shot
"tomnln" <to  2008-05-12 19:56:15 
Re: Missing the first shot
"Jas" <jstel  2008-05-13 18:23:45 
Re: Missing the first shot
"tomnln" <to  2008-05-13 23:40:17 
Re: Missing the first shot
"Jas" <jstel  2008-05-14 11:19:41 
Re: Missing the first shot
"tomnln" <to  2008-05-14 22:44:14 
Re: Missing the first shot
Anthony Marsh <anthony  2008-05-14 12:06:18 
Re: Missing the first shot
Anthony Marsh <anthony  2008-05-12 21:32:14 
Re: Missing the first shot
"Jas" <jstel  2008-05-13 02:21:51 
Re: Missing the first shot
Andrew Mason <a.mason@  2008-05-13 10:32:44 
Re: Missing the first shot
claviger <historiae.fi  2008-05-28 22:30:44 
Re: Missing the first shot
Andrew Mason <a.mason@  2008-05-29 09:49:36 
Re: Missing the first shot
claviger <historiae.fi  2008-05-31 15:11:43 
Re: Missing the first shot
Andrew Mason <a.mason@  2008-06-01 02:13:42 
Re: Missing the first shot
timstter@[EMAIL PROTECTED  2008-05-11 18:49:09 
Re: Missing the first shot
Anthony Marsh <anthony  2008-05-11 18:52:26 
Re: Missing the first shot
Andrew Mason <a.mason@  2008-05-12 00:23:32 
Re: Missing the first shot
Anthony Marsh <anthony  2008-05-12 19:53:57 
Re: Missing the first shot
"Jas" <jstel  2008-05-11 21:40:42 
Re: Missing the first shot
Dave Reitzes <dreitzes  2008-05-12 00:25:06 
Re: Missing the first shot
WhiskyJoe <jremv@[EMAI  2008-05-12 00:27:39 
Re: Missing the first shot
Anthony Marsh <anthony  2008-05-12 19:41:54 
Re: Missing the first shot
yeuhd <walloon@[EMAIL   2008-05-12 16:12:58 
Re: Missing the first shot
Andrew Mason <a.mason@  2008-05-12 23:34:17 
Re: Missing the first shot
Andrew Mason <a.mason@  2008-05-12 23:35:19 
Re: Missing the first shot
Dave Reitzes <dreitzes  2008-05-12 21:32:32 
Re: Missing the first shot
claviger <historiae.fi  2008-05-12 21:33:25 
Re: Missing the first shot
Andrew Mason <a.mason@  2008-05-13 02:24:15 
Re: Missing the first shot
Anthony Marsh <anthony  2008-05-13 10:39:32 
Re: Missing the first shot
"Jas" <jstel  2008-05-13 18:24:14 
Re: Missing the first shot
Andrew Mason <a.mason@  2008-05-13 23:37:29 
Re: Missing the first shot
claviger <historiae.fi  2008-05-29 14:56:05 
Re: Missing the first shot
Anthony Marsh <anthony  2008-05-29 23:04:37 
Re: Missing the first shot
Andrew Mason <a.mason@  2008-05-29 23:10:29 
Re: Missing the first shot
claviger <historiae.fi  2008-05-29 23:06:35 
Re: Missing the first shot
Andrew Mason <a.mason@  2008-05-30 11:28:03 
Re: Missing the first shot
claviger <historiae.fi  2008-05-31 15:12:35 
Re: Missing the first shot
Andrew Mason <a.mason@  2008-06-01 13:04:25 
Re: Missing the first shot
"Andrew.Mason"   2008-06-01 13:04:53 
Re: Missing the first shot
Andrew Mason <a.mason@  2008-06-01 21:26:58 
Re: Missing the first shot
Anthony Marsh <anthony  2008-06-02 14:46:07 
Re: Missing the first shot
Andrew Mason <a.mason@  2008-06-02 21:02:22 
Re: Missing the first shot
Anthony Marsh <anthony  2008-06-03 17:19:42 
Re: Missing the first shot
claviger <historiae.fi  2008-05-31 15:14:12 
Re: Missing the first shot
Andrew Mason <a.mason@  2008-05-31 23:32:20 
Re: Missing the first shot
claviger <historiae.fi  2008-06-03 11:24:13 
Re: Missing the first shot
Andrew Mason <a.mason@  2008-06-03 21:42:53 
Re: Missing the first shot
claviger <historiae.fi  2008-06-03 21:41:39 
Re: Missing the first shot
claviger <historiae.fi  2008-06-04 23:45:11 
Re: Missing the first shot
Andrew Mason <a.mason@  2008-06-05 10:48:05 
Re: Missing the first shot
"tomnln" <to  2008-06-05 15:51:52 
Re: Missing the first shot
Anthony Marsh <anthony  2008-06-06 23:13:18 
Re: Missing the first shot
claviger <historiae.fi  2008-06-04 23:50:11 
Re: Missing the first shot
Andrew Mason <a.mason@  2008-06-05 10:47:57 
Re: Missing the first shot
Anthony Marsh <anthony  2008-06-05 15:14:39 
Re: Missing the first shot
claviger <historiae.fi  2008-06-05 11:03:18 
Re: Missing the first shot
Andrew Mason <a.mason@  2008-06-05 21:04:44 
Re: Missing the first shot
claviger <historiae.fi  2008-06-05 21:05:12 
Re: Missing the first shot
"tomnln" <to  2008-06-06 01:15:55 
Re: Missing the first shot
Andrew Mason <a.mason@  2008-06-06 01:20:59 
Re: Missing the first shot
Anthony Marsh <anthony  2008-06-06 15:35:46 
Re: Missing the first shot
r2bzjudge@[EMAIL PROTECTE  2008-06-05 21:08:12 
Re: Missing the first shot
claviger <historiae.fi  2008-06-05 21:10:22 
Re: Missing the first shot
Anthony Marsh <anthony  2008-06-06 15:45:00 
Re: Missing the first shot
claviger <historiae.fi  2008-06-05 22:40:40 
Re: Missing the first shot
"tomnln" <to  2008-06-06 01:16:23 
Re: Missing the first shot
Anthony Marsh <anthony  2008-06-06 15:37:31 
Re: Missing the first shot
claviger <historiae.fi  2008-06-05 22:41:07 
Re: Missing the first shot
"tomnln" <to  2008-06-06 01:16:59 
Re: Missing the first shot
Andrew Mason <a.mason@  2008-06-06 01:19:56 
Re: Missing the first shot
r2bzjudge@[EMAIL PROTECTE  2008-06-05 22:41:35 
Re: Missing the first shot
Andrew Mason <a.mason@  2008-06-06 01:20:30 
Re: Missing the first shot
Anthony Marsh <anthony  2008-06-06 15:36:16 
Re: Missing the first shot
Andrew Mason <a.mason@  2008-06-06 23:06:30 
Re: Missing the first shot
Anthony Marsh <anthony  2008-06-09 20:59:16 
Re: Missing the first shot
Andrew Mason <a.mason@  2008-06-10 01:34:45 
Re: Missing the first shot
r2bzjudge@[EMAIL PROTECTE  2008-06-06 16:10:19 
Re: Missing the first shot
"tomnln" <to  2008-06-06 23:01:51 
Re: Missing the first shot
Anthony Marsh <anthony  2008-06-09 20:59:56 
Re: Missing the first shot
"tomnln" <to  2008-06-10 23:22:06 
Re: Missing the first shot
Andrew Mason <a.mason@  2008-06-06 23:04:29 
Re: Missing the first shot
Anthony Marsh <anthony  2008-06-06 23:09:40 
Re: Missing the first shot
timstter@[EMAIL PROTECTED  2008-06-07 16:00:00 
Re: Missing the first shot
claviger <historiae.fi  2008-06-07 16:13:30 
Re: Missing the first shot
Andrew Mason <a.mason@  2008-06-07 20:42:23 
Re: Missing the first shot
claviger <historiae.fi  2008-06-08 16:02:28 
Re: Missing the first shot
Andrew Mason <a.mason@  2008-06-10 23:34:51 
Re: Missing the first shot
claviger <historiae.fi  2008-06-12 18:02:11 
Re: Missing the first shot
Andrew Mason <a.mason@  2008-06-13 11:36:49 
Re: Missing the first shot
claviger <historiae.fi  2008-06-10 10:56:08 
Re: Missing the first shot
Andrew Mason <a.mason@  2008-06-10 18:28:16 
Re: Missing the first shot
Anthony Marsh <anthony  2008-06-10 23:50:34 
Re: Missing the first shot
Andrew Mason <a.mason@  2008-06-11 11:58:03 
Re: Missing the first shot
Anthony Marsh <anthony  2008-06-12 00:02:45 
Re: Missing the first shot
Andrew Mason <a.mason@  2008-05-30 21:00:27 
Re: Missing the first shot
yeuhd <walloon@[EMAIL   2008-05-13 02:19:28 
Re: Missing the first shot
"tomnln" <to  2008-05-13 16:16:33 
Re: Missing the first shot
Anthony Marsh <anthony  2008-05-13 18:29:51 
Re: Missing the first shot
claviger <historiae.fi  2008-05-13 02:19:52 
Re: Missing the first shot
Anthony Marsh <anthony  2008-05-13 10:39:46 
Re: Missing the first shot
"tomnln" <to  2008-05-13 18:21:54 
Re: Missing the first shot
howardp <howpl@[EMAIL   2008-05-13 02:23:03 
Re: Missing the first shot
Andrew Mason <a.mason@  2008-05-13 10:34:08 
Re: Missing the first shot
John Canal <John_membe  2008-05-13 16:16:21 
Re: Missing the first shot
Anthony Marsh <anthony  2008-05-13 18:30:11 
Re: Missing the first shot
Andrew Mason <a.mason@  2008-05-13 23:38:07 
Re: Missing the first shot
John Canal <John_membe  2008-05-14 11:19:07 
Re: Missing the first shot
Andrew Mason <a.mason@  2008-05-14 23:01:34 
Re: Missing the first shot
John Canal <John_membe  2008-05-15 01:10:49 
Re: Missing the first shot
Andrew Mason <a.mason@  2008-05-15 10:35:37 
Re: Missing the first shot
markinator@[EMAIL PROTECT  2008-05-15 16:16:31 
Re: Missing the first shot
John Canal <John_membe  2008-05-15 20:45:33 
Re: Missing the first shot
Anthony Marsh <anthony  2008-05-16 10:20:46 
Re: Missing the first shot
markinator@[EMAIL PROTECT  2008-05-16 10:19:49 
Re: Missing the first shot
John Canal <John_membe  2008-05-16 21:35:44 
Re: Missing the first shot
markinator@[EMAIL PROTECT  2008-05-30 20:51:52 
Re: Missing the first shot
John Canal <John_membe  2008-05-30 23:19:32 
Re: Missing the first shot
Andrew Mason <a.mason@  2008-05-31 15:15:44 
Re: Missing the first shot
Anthony Marsh <anthony  2008-05-31 15:14:48 
Re: Missing the first shot
markinator@[EMAIL PROTECT  2008-06-02 14:47:36 
Re: Missing the first shot
Anthony Marsh <anthony  2008-06-03 17:35:46 
Re: Missing the first shot
Anthony Marsh <anthony  2008-05-14 12:05:01 
Re: Missing the first shot
Andrew Mason <a.mason@  2008-05-14 23:01:01 
Re: Missing the first shot
Anthony Marsh <anthony  2008-05-15 10:42:08 
Re: Missing the first shot
Andrew Mason <a.mason@  2008-05-15 20:21:18 
Re: Missing the first shot
"Martin Shackelford&  2008-05-15 10:38:50 
Re: Missing the first shot
yeuhd <walloon@[EMAIL   2008-05-13 18:28:14 
Re: Missing the first shot
"tomnln" <to  2008-05-13 23:40:31 
Re: Missing the first shot
Anthony Marsh <anthony  2008-05-14 11:21:47 
Re: Missing the first shot
yeuhd <walloon@[EMAIL   2008-05-14 10:29:40 
Re: Missing the first shot
"tomnln" <to  2008-05-14 22:43:27 
Re: Missing the first shot
WhiskyJoe <jremv@[EMAI  2008-05-14 11:19:25 
Re: Missing the first shot
Anthony Marsh <anthony  2008-05-15 10:45:01 
Re: Missing the first shot
HPWHOA@[EMAIL PROTECTED]   2008-05-14 22:45:13 
Re: Missing the first shot
HPWHOA@[EMAIL PROTECTED]   2008-05-14 22:45:30 
Re: Missing the first shot
yeuhd <walloon@[EMAIL   2008-05-14 22:45:39 
Re: Missing the first shot
claviger <historiae.fi  2008-05-14 22:46:23 
Re: Missing the first shot
Andrew Mason <a.mason@  2008-05-15 20:27:38 
Re: Missing the first shot
"Jas" <jstel  2008-05-16 10:13:16 
Re: Missing the first shot
Andrew Mason <a.mason@  2008-05-16 21:34:32 
Re: Missing the first shot
Anthony Marsh <anthony  2008-05-17 23:29:15 
Re: Missing the first shot
"Jas" <jstel  2008-05-17 23:30:54 
Re: Missing the first shot
Andrew Mason <a.mason@  2008-05-18 12:06:49 
Re: Missing the first shot
"Jas" <jstel  2008-05-19 00:28:54 
Re: Missing the first shot
Andrew Mason <a.mason@  2008-05-19 08:29:34 
Re: Missing the first shot
"Jas" <jstel  2008-05-21 02:28:22 
Re: Missing the first shot
Anthony Marsh <anthony  2008-05-21 17:19:46 
Re: Missing the first shot
Anthony Marsh <anthony  2008-05-21 17:20:19 
Re: Missing the first shot
Andrew Mason <a.mason@  2008-05-19 12:29:09 
Re: Missing the first shot
Anthony Marsh <anthony  2008-08-16 23:45:28 
Re: Missing the first shot
"Gerry Simone"   2008-08-20 23:44:22 
Re: Missing the first shot
Anthony Marsh <anthony  2008-08-21 11:55:17 
Re: Missing the first shot
Andrew Mason <a.mason@  2008-05-19 01:45:28 
Re: Missing the first shot
Anthony Marsh <anthony  2008-05-21 17:20:30 
Re: Missing the first shot
Anthony Marsh <anthony  2008-08-23 19:03:23 
Re: Missing the first shot
Andrew Mason <a.mason@  2008-05-16 23:01:37 
Re: Missing the first shot
Anthony Marsh <anthony  2008-05-17 23:19:46 
Re: Missing the first shot
Andrew Mason <a.mason@  2008-05-18 12:07:10 
Re: Missing the first shot
Anthony Marsh <anthony  2008-05-22 00:34:23 
Re: Missing the first shot
Anthony Marsh <anthony  2008-05-16 10:21:19 
Re: Missing the first shot
Andrew Mason <a.mason@  2008-05-16 21:33:36 
Re: Missing the first shot
Anthony Marsh <anthony  2008-05-17 23:29:52 
Re: Missing the first shot
claviger <historiae.fi  2008-05-14 22:46:33 
Re: Missing the first shot
Andrew Mason <a.mason@  2008-05-15 20:26:30 
Re: Missing the first shot
clarkwilkins@[EMAIL PROTE  2008-05-14 22:47:45 
Re: Missing the first shot
claviger <historiae.fi  2008-05-15 01:09:14 
Re: Missing the first shot
Andrew Mason <a.mason@  2008-05-15 10:35:47 
Re: Missing the first shot
claviger <historiae.fi  2008-05-15 20:19:54 
Re: Missing the first shot
Anthony Marsh <anthony  2008-05-16 10:22:25 
Re: Missing the first shot
yeuhd <walloon@[EMAIL   2008-05-16 23:04:39 
Re: Missing the first shot
pierre-nau@[EMAIL PROTECT  2008-05-20 20:37:25 
Re: Missing the first shot
Andrew Mason <a.mason@  2008-05-21 17:00:58 
Re: Missing the first shot
Anthony Marsh <anthony  2008-05-21 17:12:59 
Re: Missing the first shot
claviger <historiae.fi  2008-05-21 02:53:05 
Re: Missing the first shot
claviger <historiae.fi  2008-05-21 02:53:43 
Re: Missing the first shot
Andrew Mason <a.mason@  2008-05-21 15:34:28 
Re: Missing the first shot
Anthony Marsh <anthony  2008-05-23 01:51:09 
Re: Missing the first shot
Andrew Mason <a.mason@  2008-05-23 14:29:50 
Re: Missing the first shot
claviger <historiae.fi  2008-05-23 01:49:10 
Re: Missing the first shot
Andrew Mason <a.mason@  2008-05-23 14:29:29 
Re: Missing the first shot
claviger <historiae.fi  2008-05-30 20:54:19 
Re: Missing the first shot
Andrew Mason <a.mason@  2008-05-30 23:18:09 
Re: Missing the first shot
Anthony Marsh <anthony  2008-05-31 15:15:20 
Re: Missing the first shot
claviger <historiae.fi  2008-05-30 23:13:32 
Re: Missing the first shot
Andrew Mason <a.mason@  2008-05-31 15:13:46 
Re: Missing the first shot
r2bzjudge@[EMAIL PROTECTE  2008-05-31 22:37:45 
Re: Missing the first shot
Anthony Marsh <anthony  2008-05-23 14:42:16 
Re: Missing the first shot
r2bzjudge@[EMAIL PROTECTE  2008-05-24 23:00:06 
Re: Missing the first shot
Andrew Mason <a.mason@  2008-05-25 15:12:07 
Re: Missing the first shot
Anthony Marsh <anthony  2008-05-25 15:27:44 
Re: Missing the first shot
r2bzjudge@[EMAIL PROTECTE  2008-05-24 23:02:26 
Re: Missing the first shot
Andrew Mason <a.mason@  2008-05-25 15:48:21 
Re: Missing the first shot
claviger <historiae.fi  2008-05-25 12:37:22 
Re: Missing the first shot
Anthony Marsh <anthony  2008-05-25 15:22:26 
Re: Missing the first shot
Andrew Mason <a.mason@  2008-05-25 15:57:36 
Re: Missing the first shot
r2bzjudge@[EMAIL PROTECTE  2008-05-31 21:56:12 

Post A Reply:
  Go here to Signup

AddThis Feed Button


About - Advertising - Contact - Frequently Asked Questions - Privacy Policy - Terms of Use - Signup

Contact
tan12V112 Fri Aug 29 17:06:07 CDT 2008.