On Dec 6, 11:36 pm, EHWollm...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
> On Dec 6, 7:12 pm, pedantus <pedan...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Dec 6, 7:46 pm, EHWollm...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
>
> > > On Dec 6, 11:31 am, pedantus <pedan...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
> > > > > > Did you at least look at the Durer illustration?
>
> > > > > I looked at the first one, I have seen these before in my art
cl*****.
> > > > > Irrelevant, as I say,because HE created the composition, and if
you
> > > > > don't think that is im****tant, you are completely ignorant of
art as a
> > > > > whole. It also (as in astrology and psychology) is very
im****tant to
> > > > > understand the context and INTENT of the artist at the time of
> > > > > conception--just like astrological natal charts.
>
> > > > So your version of enlightened psychology, astrology, whatever,
> > > > demands that you need not address the material under discussion?
>
> > > > Do you have substantive lucid opinions as to how the natal chart
of
> > > > Durer is either 'present' or not 'present' in the expression of
Durer
> > > > (via HIS composition)...or do you need to have Durer strapped to
chair
> > > > in your parlor so that you may attempt to brow beat him into
saying
> > > > what you wish to hear..:) Obiviously he would appear to you as one
> > > > unintetionally referring his natal chart while *talking* to the
great
> > > > observer of all thing astrological..:) If not, what then?
>
> > > > >A child may scribble
> > > > > a drawing that shows how frustrated they are at one point, and
how
> > > > > happy they are at another, one could not then deduce that the
child
> > > > > was either permanently disfunctional nor stable and content.
>
> > > > *Or* they could just be showing us what time of day they were
born,
> > > > as well as where ther natal Mars and Moon is located:
>
> > > >http://pedantus.free.fr/Horoscopic_Expressionism_01/
>
> > > > But
>
> > > > > artworks that are PLANNED and use skills that artists develop
(like
> > > > > astrologers develop skils) are far more less telling of
impetuous
> > > > > tem****ary states of being.
>
> > > > Technique is not art. Material is not art. Art is a
transcendant
> > > > abstract guiding essential form of potential. For an astrologer,
we
> > > > could say Art is why planets in aspects 'create' different
meanings.
> > > > Art exists *before* one's perception and intepretation of It. It
> > > > handles the artist, all artist 'know' this, Ed.
>
> > > > There is no such thing as a willed artistic identity, one can
only
> > > > will to release their innate potential for artistic
self-expression.
> > > > Individuals actually exist...they don't have to learn to be
individuals,
> > > > only how to communicate it successfully...and most do not, of
course...
> > > > (nothing to do at all with Integrity...that's the irrelevant
word).
>
> > > > You don't get that because you seem to
>
> > > > > think you can just SKIP learning astrology before you try to
twist it
> > > > > into something it never was.
>
> > > > That old strawman argument, again; you would like it better if I
> > > > didn't know how charts are 'read', but you are deceiveing yourself
> > > > again.
>
> > > > When you can READ a chart, which REAL
>
> > > > > ASTROLOGERS like me CAN do, then you can begin to put some spin
on
> > > > > your own brand of it if you wish
>
> > > > Been there done that, its just bull. There is no such things as
> > > > astrological prediction in any form, however astrology itself does
> > > > exist as an expressible symbolic pattern of indiviuality. Like a
> > > > finger print, (or more like a soul print--see Kepler), not like a
> > > > program for destiny, and so on.
>
> > > > But going to a math course and
>
> > > > > saying what if 2+2 equals 5 and then going forward with a pile
of
> > > > > bull**** using quadratic equations would be just as laughed at
by the
> > > > > mathematicians as real astrologers laugh at your "analysis"
without
> > > > > demonstrating those real skills-- Comprende?
>
> > > > I can understand you total lack of talent for allegorical
> > > > explications well enough..:)
>
> > > > Astrology is not just
>
> > > > > some fantasy that works because the astrologer is in some
stu****,
>
> > > > Good analogy, here..:)
>
> > > > it
>
> > > > > works because it has applicable methods that people LEARN.
>
> > > > We know that experts don't even use rules, just memorize
thousands
> > > > of special cases...look it academic one. You don't even undrstand
the
> > > > nature of expert performance for gawd's sake. The Air Force paid
to
> > > > find this out during one of those brief moments when they weren't
> > > > consulting you, Ed.
> > > > "[..]In a critique of the expert systems literature, Dreyfus and
> > > > Dreyfus:
> > > > If one asks an expert for the rules he or she is using, one will,
in
> > > > effect, force the expert to regress to the level of a beginner and
> > > > state the rules learned in school. Thus, instead of using rules he
or
> > > > she no longer remembers, as the knowledge engineers suppose, the
> > > > expert is forced to remember rules he or she no longer uses. ...
No
> > > > amount of rules and facts can capture the knowledge an expert has
when
> > > > he or she has stored experience of the actual outcomes of tens of
> > > > thousands of situations." [..]
>
> > > > There are no 'real' linguistical skills demonstrating the
existence
> > > > of astrology. I have examined these for 30+ years and have seen
> > > > through them just as Geoffrey Dean has. I genuinely understand
why
> > > > your astrology does not exist.
>
> > > > You keep forgetting that astrology, as you say it is, just
doesn't
> > > > measure up to any form of observable reality. Kepler new that...:)
>
> > > > You keep thinking that our "intentions" define what we will say
and
> > > > do....good luck with that..:)
>
> > > > You need only admit that you are capable of deceiving yourself,
and
> > > > begin to inquire into things as there are in themselves--you know,
as
> > > > if something beside you aactually existed in its own right..:)
>
> > > > Rog
>
> > > > > Edmond H. Wollmann P.M.A.F.A.
> > > > > (c) 2007 Altair Publications, SAN 299-5603
> > > > > The Sunhttp://www.edmondwollmann.com/
> > > > > Consultinghttp://www.astroconsulting.com/
> > > > > Galleryhttp://www.e-wollmann.com/-Hidequotedtext-
>
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> > > I use astrology to help people understand themselves
>
> > That's a claim with no sup****ting evidence.
>
> > and how their
>
> > > definitions create certain realities so that if they don't prefer
the
> > > reality they can redefine,
>
> > Evidence?
>
> > >if you can show some similar pragmatic use
> > > of your notion here it would be much more useful.
>
> > There is no (legitimate) *practical* use for astrology. It is as any
> > other demanding art--an avenue to consiousness expanding experience by
> > way *self* education. It requires earnest effort on the part of
> > anyone, by and for themselves. You can no more give people the ability
> > to conceive themselves ( their "reality") differently by babbling
> > about astrology than you can magically give them the ability to play
> > musical instrument. People are entertained by fortune tellers and self
> > proclaimed prophets, and the simple minded are always looking feel
> > 'empowered' on the cheap....magical thinking.
>
> > My *use* of astrology is the practical showing that It actually
> > exists as an artistically expressed pattern of individuality, and like
> > Individuality itself, we know little or nothing about it. Most people
> > will live and die in complete ignorance of these matters....thats
> > life.
>
> > Rog
>
> > > Edmond H. Wollmann P.M.A.F.A.
> > > (c) 2007 Altair Publications, SAN 299-5603
> > > The Sunhttp://www.edmondwollmann.com/
> > > Consultinghttp://www.astroconsulting.com/
> > > Galleryhttp://www.e-wollmann.com/-Hidequoted
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> He, he. You Roger, are full of ****. And I have filing cabinets full
> of "evidence."
>
Maybe you'll get lucky and a cat will use your evidence cabinet as a
litter box, that's how my collection finally got thrown away...:)
> http://groups.google.com/group/alt.paranormal/msg/8943d31537e4455c
>
> http://tinyurl.com/yweu35
Proof you can't even handle a softball?
Better stick to pretending; you chart reading just lets everyone hear
you complaining about your own irrational egomaniacal behavior and
unresolved (petty) issues.
Rog
> Edmond H. Wollmann P.M.A.F.A.
> (c) 2007 Altair Publications, SAN 299-5603
> The Sunhttp://www.edmondwollmann.com/
> Consultinghttp://www.astroconsulting.com/
> Galleryhttp://www.e-wollmann.com/-
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