On Dec 7, 11:28 am, EHWollm...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
> On Dec 7, 4:55 am, pedantus <pedan...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Dec 6, 11:36 pm, EHWollm...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
>
> > > On Dec 6, 7:12 pm, pedantus <pedan...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
> > > > On Dec 6, 7:46 pm, EHWollm...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
>
> > > > > On Dec 6, 11:31 am, pedantus <pedan...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > Did you at least look at the Durer illustration?
>
> > > > > > > I looked at the first one, I have seen these before in my
art =
cl*****.
> > > > > > > Irrelevant, as I say,because HE created the composition, and
i=
f you
> > > > > > > don't think that is im****tant, you are completely ignorant
of =
art as a
> > > > > > > whole. It also (as in astrology and psychology) is very
im****t=
ant to
> > > > > > > understand the context and INTENT of the artist at the time
of=
> > > > > > > conception--just like astrological natal charts.
>
> > > > > > So your version of enlightened psychology, astrology,
whateve=
r,
> > > > > > demands that you need not address the material under
discussion?=
>
> > > > > > Do you have substantive lucid opinions as to how the natal
cha=
rt of
> > > > > > Durer is either 'present' or not 'present' in the expression
of =
Durer
> > > > > > (via HIS composition)...or do you need to have Durer strapped
to=
chair
> > > > > > in your parlor so that you may attempt to brow beat him into
say=
ing
> > > > > > what you wish to hear..:) Obiviously he would appear to you as
o=
ne
> > > > > > unintetionally referring his natal chart while *talking* to
the =
great
> > > > > > observer of all thing astrological..:) If not, what then?
>
> > > > > > >A child may scribble
> > > > > > > a drawing that shows how frustrated they are at one point,
and=
how
> > > > > > > happy they are at another, one could not then deduce that
the =
child
> > > > > > > was either permanently disfunctional nor stable and content.
>
> > > > > > *Or* they could just be showing us what time of day they were
b=
orn,
> > > > > > as well as where ther natal Mars and Moon is located:
>
> > > > > >http://pedantus.free.fr/Horoscopic_Expressionism_01/
>
> > > > > > But
>
> > > > > > > artworks that are PLANNED and use skills that artists
develop =
(like
> > > > > > > astrologers develop skils) are far more less telling of
impetu=
ous
> > > > > > > tem****ary states of being.
>
> > > > > > Technique is not art. Material is not art. Art is a
transcend=
ant
> > > > > > abstract guiding essential form of potential. For an
astrologer=
, we
> > > > > > could say Art is why planets in aspects 'create' different
meani=
ngs.
> > > > > > Art exists *before* one's perception and intepretation of It.
It=
> > > > > > handles the artist, all artist 'know' this, Ed.
>
> > > > > > There is no such thing as a willed artistic identity, one
can=
only
> > > > > > will to release their innate potential for artistic
self-express=
ion.
> > > > > > Individuals actually exist...they don't have to learn to be
indi=
viduals,
> > > > > > only how to communicate it successfully...and most do not, of
co=
urse...
> > > > > > (nothing to do at all with Integrity...that's the irrelevant
wo=
rd).
>
> > > > > > You don't get that because you seem to
>
> > > > > > > think you can just SKIP learning astrology before you try to
t=
wist it
> > > > > > > into something it never was.
>
> > > > > > That old strawman argument, again; you would like it better
if =
I
> > > > > > didn't know how charts are 'read', but you are deceiveing
yourse=
lf
> > > > > > again.
>
> > > > > > When you can READ a chart, which REAL
>
> > > > > > > ASTROLOGERS like me CAN do, then you can begin to put some
spi=
n on
> > > > > > > your own brand of it if you wish
>
> > > > > > Been there done that, its just bull. There is no such things
a=
s
> > > > > > astrological prediction in any form, however astrology itself
do=
es
> > > > > > exist as an expressible symbolic pattern of indiviuality.
Like =
a
> > > > > > finger print, (or more like a soul print--see Kepler), not
like =
a
> > > > > > program for destiny, and so on.
>
> > > > > > But going to a math course and
>
> > > > > > > saying what if 2+2 equals 5 and then going forward with a
pile=
of
> > > > > > > bull**** using quadratic equations would be just as laughed
at=
by the
> > > > > > > mathematicians as real astrologers laugh at your "analysis"
wi=
thout
> > > > > > > demonstrating those real skills-- Comprende?
>
> > > > > > I can understand you total lack of talent for allegorical
> > > > > > explications well enough..:)
>
> > > > > > Astrology is not just
>
> > > > > > > some fantasy that works because the astrologer is in some
stup=
or,
>
> > > > > > Good analogy, here..:)
>
> > > > > > it
>
> > > > > > > works because it has applicable methods that people LEARN.
>
> > > > > > We know that experts don't even use rules, just memorize
thous=
ands
> > > > > > of special cases...look it academic one. You don't even
undrstan=
d the
> > > > > > nature of expert performance for gawd's sake. The Air Force
pai=
d to
> > > > > > find this out during one of those brief moments when they
weren'=
t
> > > > > > consulting you, Ed.
> > > > > > "[..]In a critique of the expert systems literature, Dreyfus
and=
> > > > > > Dreyfus:
> > > > > > If one asks an expert for the rules he or she is using, one
will=
, in
> > > > > > effect, force the expert to regress to the level of a beginner
a=
nd
> > > > > > state the rules learned in school. Thus, instead of using
rules =
he or
> > > > > > she no longer remembers, as the knowledge engineers suppose,
the=
> > > > > > expert is forced to remember rules he or she no longer uses.
...=
No
> > > > > > amount of rules and facts can capture the knowledge an expert
ha=
s when
> > > > > > he or she has stored experience of the actual outcomes of tens
o=
f
> > > > > > thousands of situations." [..]
>
> > > > > > There are no 'real' linguistical skills demonstrating the
exis=
tence
> > > > > > of astrology. I have examined these for 30+ years and have
seen
> > > > > > through them just as Geoffrey Dean has. I genuinely
understand =
why
> > > > > > your astrology does not exist.
>
> > > > > > You keep forgetting that astrology, as you say it is, just
doe=
sn't
> > > > > > measure up to any form of observable reality. Kepler new
that...=
:)
>
> > > > > > You keep thinking that our "intentions" define what we will
sa=
y and
> > > > > > do....good luck with that..:)
>
> > > > > > You need only admit that you are capable of deceiving
yoursel=
f, and
> > > > > > begin to inquire into things as there are in themselves--you
kno=
w, as
> > > > > > if something beside you aactually existed in its own right..:)
>
> > > > > > Rog
>
> > > > > > > Edmond H. Wollmann P.M.A.F.A.
> > > > > > > (c) 2007 Altair Publications, SAN 299-5603
> > > > > > > The Sunhttp://www.edmondwollmann.com/
> > > > > > > Consultinghttp://www.astroconsulting.com/
> > > > > > > Galleryhttp://www.e-wollmann.com/-Hidequotedtext-
>
> > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > > > I use astrology to help people understand themselves
>
> > > > That's a claim with no sup****ting evidence.
>
> > > > and how their
>
> > > > > definitions create certain realities so that if they don't
prefer =
the
> > > > > reality they can redefine,
>
> > > > Evidence?
>
> > > > >if you can show some similar pragmatic use
> > > > > of your notion here it would be much more useful.
>
> > > > There is no (legitimate) *practical* use for astrology. It is as
a=
ny
> > > > other demanding art--an avenue to consiousness expanding
experience =
by
> > > > way *self* education. It requires earnest effort on the part of
> > > > anyone, by and for themselves. You can no more give people the
abili=
ty
> > > > to conceive themselves ( their "reality") differently by babbling
> > > > about astrology than you can magically give them the ability to
play=
> > > > musical instrument. People are entertained by fortune tellers and
se=
lf
> > > > proclaimed prophets, and the simple minded are always looking feel
> > > > 'empowered' on the cheap....magical thinking.
>
> > > > My *use* of astrology is the practical showing that It actually
> > > > exists as an artistically expressed pattern of individuality, and
li=
ke
> > > > Individuality itself, we know little or nothing about it. Most
peop=
le
> > > > will live and die in complete ignorance of these matters....thats
> > > > life.
>
> > > > Rog
>
> > > > > Edmond H. Wollmann P.M.A.F.A.
> > > > > (c) 2007 Altair Publications, SAN 299-5603
> > > > > The Sunhttp://www.edmondwollmann.com/
> > > > > Consultinghttp://www.astroconsulting.com/
> > > > > Galleryhttp://www.e-wollmann.com/-Hidequotedtext-
>
> > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
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> > > > - Show quoted text -
>
> > > He, he. You Roger, are full of ****. And I have filing cabinets full
> > > of "evidence."
>
> > Maybe you'll get lucky and a cat will use your evidence cabinet as a
> > litter box, that's how my collection finally got thrown away...:)
>
> > >http://groups.google.com/group/alt.paranormal/msg/8943d31537e4455c
>
> > >http://tinyurl.com/yweu35
>
> > Proof you can't even handle a softball?
>
> Proof you don't know squat about astrology or psychology
Sume cillege course as you, Ed and you know they have nothing to to
with your Ed-ology.
and just use
> flamboyant linguistics and well known artists to hide that fact.
You are not even aware that you have been plagarizing, the
plagarisms, of Heideggerian Phenomenology for the whole of your
ongoing ecstactic epiphany, dude..:)
Don't feel badly about, it ain't personal, as has been pointed out
by Berkeley's Hubert Dreyfus, even Sartre was no more than a
brillinant mis-understanding of Heidegger...you are not alone. But if
you won't read, or even attempt to become aware of whose thought you
living and breathing, third and fourth hand (for the whole of you
thinking life) then you damn yourself to abyssmally empty soul of
ignorance---arbitray meanings propped up by weighty convictions
sinking in the reaking muck of the filthy intentions you call
Intergrity.
But, hey, maybe that's the way you want to seen, ...to *be* the
production of just more dead (bad) art....stealing fire from dead gods--
burning their dung to acquire empowerment on the cheap.=83=BB
>
> Edmond H. Wollmann P.M.A.F.A.
> (c) 2007 Altair Publications, SAN 299-5603
> The Sunhttp://www.edmondwollmann.com/
> Consultinghttp://www.astroconsulting.com/
> Galleryhttp://www.e-wollmann.com/-
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> - Show quoted text -
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