"Ray Murphy" <raymur@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message news:
089a5d28-7abf-429d-a736-f86ffb1ca9c7@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re:
Controversial Topics in Astrology:
> On Apr 25, 4:01 pm, CFA <bo...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>> Ray Murphy wrote:
>> >On Apr 25, 1:24 pm, CFA <bo...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>> >> Ray Murphy wrote:
>
>> >> >RM: Ideally, what we need for questions like this is a giant
>> >> >(alterable) online questionnaire which is filled in randomly
according
>> >> >to what astrologers feel confident about at any given time. It
>> >> >wouldn't prove much but it would show how much astrologers are
>> >> >influenced by the movers + shakers in their country or region,
>> >> >including those who keep incessantly feeding us with 'flavour of
the
>> >> >month' stuff without presenting a shred of evidence to back any of
it
>> >> >up.
>>
>> >> That would be a most excellent addition to your site :-)
>>
>> >RM: I've been talking about *someone* doing it since 2002, but
>> >everyone told me how problematic it was to do such a thing online due
>> >to security risks and flakey database systems. It's probably a bit
>> >easier now, but my alternative idea is to make the questionnaire
>> >program OFFLINE in the form of a program with the same interface. If
>> >we had that, then when a questionnaire was completed a tiny datafile
>> >with all the answers could be generated which looked like this:
>> >1,3,14.22,1,1,1,0,44,56,0,1,0,22,21,4,44,99,216 and it could be
>> >emailed and then pasted into a master file for (regular) analysis.
>>
>> >I would imagine that such a project would go through lots of stages as
>> >astrologers kept suggesting more categories for inclusion.
>>
>> Sounds good to me.
>>
>>
>> >> >Such a questionnaire, if it was filled in by thousands of
astrologers
>> >> >around the world, would also show us which parts of astrology were
>> >> >strongly sup****ted or ignored - irrespective of what the text books
>> >> >have said, and that would guide us to the best areas of research -
>> >> >either the number crunching type or the informal type.
>>
>> >> I'd be more interested in the westerners now, especially in
connection
>> >> with your next paragraph.
>>
>> >> >To me it seems rather pointless, or even amusing, for astrologers
to
>> >> >argue about things in our art that were never meant to be anything
>> >> >more than a language to put us on the same page. It's a different
>> >> >story if we're dealing with those parts of astrology that are
believed
>> >> >to be a REAL part of the cycles of nature - which astrologers have
>> >> >minimally understood for centuries.
>>
>> >> A list would be nice. Call it a starting point :-)
>>
>> >RM: Ok, let's brainstorm for questions and I'll make a mini prototype
>> >questionnaire program in the next few days to see how the idea works.
>> >If we get something reasonable, the concept and questions could be
>> >copied to a suitable internet programming language so that any busy
>> >website could alter it and use it to gather data online.
>>
>> Excellent.
>>
>> Ken
>
> RM: Ok, the desktop questionnaire that generates data files is ready
> to go, so we had better all get a wriggle on with questions to put in
> it. Currently it has only about 100 questions/selections and they can
> be answered in under 2 minutes, so another 500 selections/questions
> about anything to do with astrology would be nice.
>
> I suppose the way to go from here is to email the tiny (80k) program
> to a few posters so they can offer lots of suggestions for improvement
> before the first beta version is posted on a website somewhere.
>
> Ray
OK, here are all the ideas I could think of so far. Everyone is
welcome to jump in and add more ideas, comments, criticism, etc.
* There could be people who use multiple systems of astrology, so, the
ability to choose more than one would be good, with the option of
picking which system they rely on the most, and they could give some
indication of how confident they are in each system. Could expand the
list with the systems named in the "Controversial Topics in Astrology"
thread:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.astrology.moderated/browse_thread/thread/a833c68d423cb419
* Could ask people for their exact birth data. Since all the
questions are optional, they wouldn't _have_ to provide it...
* Could also allow them to put in their current location as exactly as
they feel like, and give them the option to tell the program to record
the exact time the survey was completed. Then, we'd have all the data
we need to make an event chart for the event of the person completing
the survey.
* Could ask for an email address and ask if the person is willing to
be contacted for additional information. If anyone gives "Other" as
an answer for anything it might be interesting to ask them what they
meant by "Other", and then add it to future versions of the survey.
* Could provide something so people can rate how confident they are in
various things, and also indicate how much experience they've had
using various different systems, techniques, etc., and how often they
use them, and how much they rely on them, etc. Might also be good to
ask what things people have heard of - I don't recall ever hearing of
"Paranatellonta" before... :-) Plus, there are things I've heard of
but don't really know what they are (like Davison charts) - so, could
ask which things people feel they understand/know what they are.
* In addition to people being able to choose their preferred planets/
aspects/house systems and so on, could also have another section where
they could choose what planets/aspects/house systems/etc. they're open-
minded about and willing to try out and experiment with, but don't
really rely on or use consistently; and maybe another section where
they could indicate which things they think are nonsense (or probably
nonsense).
* "When did you start learning about astrology?" "When did you start
taking it seriously?"
Under "Planets + Points":
"Named Asteroids", "Unnamed Asteroids", "Fixed Stars" might be some
good additions. Also, "Eris" - it's physically bigger than Pluto, so,
what the heck. Could let people type in specific asteroid
numbers... :-)
Under "Aspects":
Could add "Biseptile" (about 103) and "triseptile" (about 154),
"semiquintile" (36), "quadronovile" (160), "binovile" (80). Also
could include the alternate name for the inconjunct, "quincunx". Then
there are some very obscure aspects called "undecimal" - I've only
seen them mentioned in a book called "The New Astrologer" by Martin
Seymour-Smith, and some posts here, if I recall correctly.
Wow, now that I look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astrological_aspect
- it lists a bunch I've never even heard of. Could add those,
perhaps.
Could ask people about their preferred orbs for various aspects in
natal charts, transits, eclipses, synastry, etc., and ask them if they
think applying or separating aspects really make a difference in natal
charts, in horary, etc., etc. Could also ask people what are the
maximum orbs they believe they've definitely seen working with various
aspects - natal, transiting, synastry, etc.
Could ask what aspect configurations people pay attention to - Grand
Trine, Grand Square/Cross, T-square, yod, Fist of God, kite, cradle,
boomerang, Mystic Rectangle, Grand Quintile, Grand ***tile, and I'm
guessing there are probably other ones as well.
Under "Methods":
Could add "Synastry", "Group Astro Dynamics" (named after the feature
in JigSaw for examining patterns in the charts of multiple people in a
group, but maybe there's a better name for it than that), "Mars
Returns" (and perhaps other returns), and "Genealogical" or "Family
Patterns" something like that, for people who like to compare the
charts of people and their relatives. "Medical Astrology",
"Electional", "Eclipses".
Under "Houses":
Could add the option "No houses" for anyone who prefers to use no
houses.
Great list of programs already. :-) I can scarcely think of any to
add, except for the ones I noticed while reading about the Gators.
http://alphee.com/
Oh yeah, and Celestia - which is an astronomy
program, but it can be used (or abused, some would say) for
astrology. http://www.shatters.net/celestia/
Could ask the maximum amount people are willing to pay for astrology
software, and the maximum amount they ever have paid, and what they
think is a good price for astrology software, and if they've ever
thought about writing their own. Could ask if software being open
source is im****tant to them.
Could rename the "Groups" section to "Discussion Forums" or something
like that, for clarity. I guess the lists of mailing lists, etc.
compiled by Richard Nolle and posted here periodically by I. R. Heller
would be a useful resource for more ideas to add to the list.
Could add "No signs" as an option somewhere, as well as something
somewhere which will enable people to point out that they like to use
the actual constellations.
Could ask if people can read astrological glyphs. Could ask if
they've ever compiled any very large databases of birth data. Could
ask if they've attempted any statistical research (serious or
casual). Could ask what academic credentials people have, and what
their profession is. Could ask professional astrologers how much
money they make per year. Heck, could ask everyone what their annual
household income is. :-)
Could ask how frequently people check out what their ongoing transits
are. Could ask if they've ever felt apprehensive about an upcoming or
ongoing transit. Could ask how often people attempt horary astrology
and electional astrology. Could ask if they've rejected any potential
love interests on the basis of bad synastry. :-)
Could inquire about whether people think astrology works by causation
(various astrological configurations somehow _making_ things happen)
or correlation (various astrological configurations just happening to
coincide with various events on earth, personality traits, etc.,
without causing them to happen).
Could ask whether people think astrology works by gravity,
synchronicity/coincidence, telepathy/telekinesis, a deity or deities
using their omnipotent power to make it work, self-delusion and other
skeptical explanations like the Forer effect, etc. Could ask if
people believe in or suspect there is predestination, and to what
degree they think things are or might be predestined.
Could ask if people think astrology has objective validity or is
merely subjective, and ask if people think astrology will ever be
shown to have objective validity. Could ask if people think it's
im****tant to find out if astrology has objective validity. Could ask
if people think astrology as a whole has been debunked, or if they
think there simply hasn't been adequate evidence in astrology's favor.
Could ask if people think their chart restricts who they are and who/
what they ever can become. Could ask people if they believe their
personality is set in stone and can never change that much. Could ask
if people think personality is an attribute of the physical body or of
the soul. Could ask if people think souls exist.
Could ask if people have an interest and/or belief in other paranormal
topics. Could ask if they believe in God (or multiple deities), or
definitely believe there's no such thing, or if they don't know and
think there might or might not be.
Could ask if people think astrology works for animals. How about
amoebas? :-) Plants? Fungi?
Could ask how many astrology books people own. Could ask where people
think they learn the most about astrology - books, the internet,
teachers, peers sharing anecdotes, learning by doing, etc.
Could ask if people have ever attended an astrology class. I actually
went to a few in the online virtual world game Second Life - could ask
if people have ever gone to an astrology class in a virtual world
game... :-)
Could ask if people read sun sign horoscopes in newspapers, and
whether they think they have validity. Could ask if people think
astrology works everywhere in the universe, or if it will only work on
Earth for some reason.
Could ask if any astrologers look at the actual sky as a typical part
of their work. Could ask if anyone usually calculates charts with non-
computerized methods.
Years ago I posted a thread called "What does a natal chart show?"
asking all kinds of questions, there might be some useful ideas there.
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.astrology.moderated/browse_thread/thread/62bb310e241ce01/d82a0e0aa7892201?lnk=gst
Also, the thread where the discussion of the questionnaire began,
"Controversial Topics in Astrology", contains various good ideas:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.astrology.moderated/browse_thread/thread/a833c68d423cb419
----
Apollia My website: http://www.astroblahhh.com/
Birth data: -qa July 3 1981 12:50 EDT 79:59W 40:26N (Pittsburgh, PA)
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