Re: Inheriting parents' chart factors

"Pandora" <pandora@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message 
news:l6sl24l5037734hj7bjjcabc8272a6ed8p@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Tue, 13 May 2008 11:55:09 -0500, "Ray Murphy"
> <raymur@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"CFA" <bogus@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>>news:1s4qp1.9u2.19.1@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>> Ray Murphy wrote:
>>
>>>>We frequently hear on the various astrology groups about children
>>>>inheriting parents' chart factors, especially their Sun, Moon or
>>>>Asc,
>>
>>[.....]
>>
>>> I see inherited patterns, which, as you know, don't 'require'
>>> identical signs/houses/aspects.
>>>
>>> <>Harder to test for that.</wild understatement>
>>
>>RM: I don't think we'll ever get very far with *complex* 'family
>>connections research' until we start collating the observations
>>that astrologers have made with their own families. They are in an
>>ideal position to spot themes in a bunch of family charts and to
>>see the clear manifestaton of some of them in family members.
>
> I realize this discussion is really focused on researching but I've
> always found the connections between my daughter's and my chart to 
> be
> amazing so I'm going to mention them here.

RM: Good, because I hate it when usenet discussions keep evolving
into 2-way discussions where others think they are interrupting a 
private
dscussion.

> I have 13 Scorpio rising.  She has 12 Scorpio rising.  Therefore, 
> all
> of our angles are the same within an about 2 degree orb also making
> our house layout identical.

RM: That's the synastry which I find most interesting. Oppositions
follow close behind it.

> I have a Sun/Mercury conjunction at 3 Libra.  She has a Venus/Mars
> conjunction at 5 Libra.  My Pluto is 29 Leo.  Her Mercury is 29 Leo.
> My Venus is 19 Leo.  Her Sun is 20 Leo.
>
> I find these similarities go beyond "family points" and are probably
> far more karmic in nature.  With all of the conjunctions in the same
> houses in our charts one might think we are very close and get along
> well but the opposite is closer to the truth.  Of course, there 
> other
> planetary aspects involved here.

RM: When we start looking at midpoints it becomes easy to find
connections like that. There was a time on aamod when one of the
posters mentioned something *like* his VE/MA midpoint being identical
to his new partners VE/MA mp. It's fascinating to see and follow, but
we need to keep in mind the potential for hundreds of astrologers to
have looked and *not* seen such a neat bit of synastry.

> My mother has 20 Scorpio rising.  While her chart's house layout is
> not identical to that of mine and my daughter's, it is similar 
> enough.
> My father had Mars at 25 rx Scorpio.  My mother's Mars is 28 rx
> Scorpio. My Saturn is 28 Scorpio.  My  brother's Jupiter is 28
> Scorpio.  My niece's Venus is 28 Scorpio.  Another brother's Mercury
> is 23 Scorpio.  Another niece's Uranus is 26 Scorpio.  My mother's
> father had Mars at 18 Scorpio.  My nephew has Pluto at 18 Scorpio.
>
> My father's mother had a Scorpio stellium running from 0 Scorpio to 
> 19
> Scorpio consisting of Jupiter, Mars, Venus, SNode, Sun, and Mercury.
>
> In my husband's family almost everyone has some planet placed 
> between
> 7 and 16 Virgo.  Even though I only married into the family I have
> Jupiter at 16 Virgo.  What im****tance that has in the family
> structure, I don't know but it suggests that such "family points" 
> may
> not be restricted to only blood relatives in a family.

RM: These are the things that we need to record somehow, so we
can use the easiest ones in "family pocket" research. That's pretty 
much
how DNA is seen - in pockets.

>>In transit research I've noticed that the 'family connections' seem
>>to extend to transits as well. The most striking case I've come
>>across was the day I processed hundreds of death transits from
>>data harvested from genealogy information scattered all over the
>>net. At one point I saw a small bunch of Mars/Saturn transits
>>for death dates - and while there was nowhere NEAR enough
>>of them to make a case for Mar-Sat aspects being more
>>prominent, I nevertheless looked more closely to see if anything
>>in their natal charts connected with it. To my surprise I found
>>2 siblings with identical transits of the Mar-Sat conjunction
>>(under 2 degs) and another one with the square.
>
> I have a small supply of family death charts but never compared them
> to natal aspects.  You've got me interested now.

RM: I made a program for searching for them because it's far too
slow to do many of them by hand. If anyone wants to know about
some of the interesting coincidences between family members or
partners etc, I can run their data through my synastry progarm but
*only* if the can supply the data in an astrology program format.

> While perhaps you're only looking at statistical findings, I'm
> interested more in how these inherited placements play out in the
> bigger picture of a family history.

RM: Yes, lots of thigs can be done via ordinary astrology, but
I'd be interested in following up on transit events as well (where the
people have the potential for similar transits at the same time).

> Either way if there were some
> sort of chart to follow in logging placements and aspects it would
> make it easier to do***ent and follow through with the info.  You've
> got me interested in creating some sort of chart to do that now.

RM: The ideal way to go for that sort of thing is to have the Jigsaw
research program - where it's dead easy to link events and people.
Unfortunately Jigsaw is a bit expensive, so I made an el-cheapo
version which still needs a bit of poli****ng up. There was also a 
large
(free) database I made for all astrologers, but there was no interest
in in so it will probably never be released.

>>When we look at the more common Sun-Moo-Asc 'inheritance'
>>of factors in natal charts we need to be aware of how easy it is
>>to 'acquire' them. Yesterday I did a quick check with 25,000
>>random charts and noticed that if a parent had Sun-Moo-Asc
>>in 3 different sgns, the a child has a 58% chance if inheriting one
>>of them in their Sun or Moo or Asc.
>
> You need to keep in mind (maybe more so in earlier times) that not
> every child born into a family belonged there.  Cheating on a 
> marital
> partner and the results of it were often hidden...meaning the real
> father was not always the same man as the one who sat at the dinner
> table.  Often that kind of info gets left out of family histories.

RM: Well as strange as it may seem, some of those children show up
as strongly in relation to both parents' charts (with a special method 
I
use) but they also show up IN the charts of the incorrect fathers - so
do some adopted children.

Ray