agsf_57@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(alt.gothic OG) wrote in
news:89b0dc3b.0312150337.30bfbe8d@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> The norm of society is wrong? Are you telling me that the
> abnorm society is correct? Your logic is flawed.
first, yes, i do believe the current 'norms' of society are
wrong. i do not intend to raise a brainless consumer who is
willing to bow before the yoke of authority. if you think
that's a problem maybe you should examine your own
indoctrination a little more closely.
second, a subculture, by definition, is a subset of a
culture. a subculture takes those parts of the norm of society
that works & leaves the parts that do not. subcultures also
live in flux, as does most of society (the Victorians would be
shocked by current society, for example, even though it is a
direct decendant of thier social norms).
> Why would you want to raise your child to be normal? Are
> you serious? Your parents raised you to be normal...right?
no, i don't think they did, actually. i think they raised me
to question authority & thereby society.
see, i was born in the McCarthy era... it was dangerous to be
a freethinker then. i see that same sort of society making a
comeback under Shrub & Ashcroft.
what *i* don't understand is why *you* would want to raise
any child to be a mindless consumer sheep.
> I classify the goth subculture lifestyle (and yes it does
> exists, or we wouldn't be discussing it) to be unhealthy
> because it teaches deviation of the norm. A common theme
> used by the media to bring light of the normality of normal
> day to day life. Some examples are: The adam's family,
> SNL's Goth Talk, A nightmare before Christmas, etc.
i don't understand what your point is in this paragraph.
First, the Addam's Family (the tv show that spawned the
movies) preexisted before goth became a separate subculture,
SNL's Goth Talk is a parody of Spooky kids/baby bats &
Burton's Nightmare Before Christmas isn't neccessarily "goth".
it is popular within the subculture, but so is Rocky Horror or
Matrix (neither of which is suitable for a child. NMBC may be
ok for a kid, depending entirely on the individual kid. *my* 3
year old likes it, but he also enjoys Shrek & Chicken Run. the
Sound of Music frightens him. YMMV).
>
> Take a serious look at the gothic subculture and ask
> yourself, will my child have an acceptable and happy life
> by following those traits. Also, if there was no chance of
> endangering my child, then why would I ask the question in
> the first place?
what in the gothic lifestyle do you find dangerous? does the
thought of death frighten you? can you not make fun of the
macabre?
i really truely do not see why my lifestyle (which is most
likely *vastly* different than a city goth lifestyle) is going
to do lasting harm to my child. kids are very adaptable,
something it would appear that you are not.
on another note, you might realize that 'normal' lifestyles
have just as many dangers to the kids, perhaps more since i'm
not about to build a swimming pool (drowning risk) or buy the
kid an ATV/snowmobile (head injury/death risk). he won't be
attending public school so there's slim chance of bullying,
etc.
>
> If mommy comes home with a different guy every week or day,
> it does have an impact on the child. I have to agree that
> an unhealthy hetro***ual relation****p does not benefit a
> child as much as a healthy hetro***uak relation****p. As far
> as same *** partner****ps and the raising of children, I
> have to read more into the subject to see how it affects
> the psychology of the child to comment further on this
> subject. I just know that the prolonging of our species
> would not have continued if the majority of people had Adam
> and Steve as their parents.
it is not part of being 'goth' to be promiscuous. that would
be an entirely separate issue. don't muddy the discussion with
preconception.
i know quite a few same *** couples, both male & female
(oddly enough they all have daughters though)... but then,
*none* of them are goth either... AFAICS there is no negative
impact as long as the child knows it's parents, no matter what
gender configurations, unconditionally loves them.
nurture, however, is not gender dependant. *society* has
deemed it wrong for men to have much direct impact on kids
though. you won't see many male preschool or grade school
(below 5th grade anyway) teachers because "normal society"
finds them suspect & prejudges them as incipent child
molesters (again, not a value judgement i want *my* kid to
learn)
> Just curious, why did you get involved with the Gothic
> subculture?
i enjoy the music, i have many friends in the scene... it was
better than becoming a hippie ;)
funny story: when i was in high school in the late 60s/early
70s, my mom objected to my wearing black, so we compromised on
dark navy blue. when i went to college & started buying my own
clothes, i bought black mostly... but i will admit to a
fondness for neon bright accents once in a while, especially
yellow <g>
>
> I said majority, this is based on my experience and the
> people I met. The other goths I met were the kids who came
> to the realization that life is not what they perceived it
> to be from childhood and now they seem, somehow betrayed.
> These are the kids that lived a sheltered life in suburbia,
> come from the families with the 2.2 kids, white picket
> fence, SUV and a dog named spot. They mope around in their
> teens listening to dark music cause that explains their
> inner self. They will eventually grow up and move on.
yeah... they're trying different subcultures trying to find
thier niche. we all do. the depressed & dispossessed are just
as likely to move on eventually too, when they find the
subculture doesn't really change thier inner angst. change
like that can only come from ones self, not the subculture one
identifies with.
>
> The goths I came in contact with never had that chance
> cause their mom was too busy turning tricks to sup****t her
> speed habit. Who knows, maybe those goths are now the
> minority. After all, this was way back in the early
> eighties.
or maybe just the particular group you hung out with. of
those folks, how many still self-identify as goth? how many
have kids? how many are repeating thier own parents mistakes?
>
> Despair, depression, no hope and acceptance of no control
> are the traits I do not sup****t. If your idea of goth is
> different from what I described in my previous sentence,
> then I can't comment. Maybe sing along with Rozz is better
> than Sing along with Barney in your case.
funny, while many goths i know do suffer from depression (and
ADD/ADHD & a few other neurological blips), few are totally
dispairing. i find most teens go through a very nihilistic
phase, sometimes for many years. i don't really know anyone
who feels they have no control over thier life, but again, if
i did, i would not consider that a goth subculture trait. it's
still a personal problem of a particular individual who may
sef-identify with the subculture. do you understand that
distinction?
>
>> smells like a troll...
>
> Then don't feed it and live life as you know it cause it's
> the absolute truth.
exactly :)
>
>> lee <here, have a Christmas bat cookie>
>
> Bah! Humbug.
but... it's chocolate! ;)
BTW, who are you? you're using AGSF, but i suspect you aren't
one of us somehow. i'm AGSF <retired>
lee
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