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Secrets Of Magic Forum -> Secret Discussion -> Grand Illusions/Stage
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=BB Deceptive Base, How it tricks you...
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QED Posted: Dec 6 2007, 06:46 PM
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I had posted this in the old forum, but I don't believe we've
discussed it in the new forum, so I'm posting this for our newer
members and those who may not be familiar with the concept.
This sketch sort-of explains it...
The decptive base makes you think that the base of an illusion is much
thinner than it really is. By using a bright metal band or bright
paint around the thin edge, and painting out the slanted part of the
base in black, it tricks the eye into believing that there is no room
for anyone to hide there. But from the cross-section you can see that
it is actually much thicker in the center section.
A classic example of the deceptive base is Copperfield's illusion
where he saws himself in half... I will try to find a pic of it (or
some other illusion) and with this knowledge, you will be able to see
just how thick it really is, yet how thin it "appears" to be...
--------------------
do or do not, there is no try....
=93A conjurer is nothing if he only amuses and fails to inspire wonder.=94
=96 Thomas Frost
Magic Max Posted: Dec 6 2007, 08:54 PM
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That is a good diagram of a beveled base. I would like to add to your
description by saying the base actually goes up a little bit into the
box that is sitting on top. This adds more room for hiding space.
There is also added space on the underside of the base by either
having a bevel, a spandex bottom that expands, or there is a bit of a
step down.
Quite often, the type of conditions that you are constantly performing
in will have some effect on a beveled base. If the audience is seated
looking down on the stage, it is best to have the bevel on the bottom
of the base. If they are seated looking up, have the bevel on top.
The paint job on the base is one of the im****tant factors as well. You
want to use light colors to highlight the parts you want seen, and
dark colors on the parts you don't want to be noticed very much. The
bright colors will stand out on stage while the dark colors will hide
a little bit.
Another contributing factor in deceptive bases is to use horizontal
lines. The horizontal lines confuse the eye into believing that the
section is thinner than it is. If you have a vertical hiding space
where the person is standing, the lines should go vertical.
Here are some photos of some deceptive bases both with and without
boxes on top.
This next base is a base for the vani****ng dove cage. It is a smaller
version of a beveled base.
--------------------
What ever it is... I didn't do it.
QED Posted: Dec 7 2007, 01:35 AM
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Very nice pics MMax!...thanks
It's hard to believe a human being would fit inside those things.
That's why you usually see 100 pound slender ladies doing the box
jumping... and why it's so im****tant to build the base to fit the
assistant... the closer you can make it to the person's body size, the
more deceptive it will be...
Sometimes these things will be built to fit a range of sizes, say
5'-6" to 5'-9", 100 to 120 pounds, etc....
I love that fire cage base... part of the secret compartment is hidden
behind the horizontal metal piece under the black base... and the
metal legs under the cage section deceive you into thinking that the
cage is separate from the base, with a gap between, but it's actually
a continuous void all the way up to the floor of the cage which is
probably at the very bottom edge of the front door.... you can see
that it's very thick even though it just looks like a box sitting on a
flat base....also, notice the double silver strips around the base
which further breaks up the vertical thickness of the base... very
tricky...
another trick is to make these things look as if they are a solid
piece of wood, built extra strong to handle the load on them, when
really they are made of thinner strips of wood and thin sheets of
plywood, metal or fiberglass/plastic....
--------------------
do or do not, there is no try....
=93A conjurer is nothing if he only amuses and fails to inspire wonder.=94
=96 Thomas Frost
Dr. HOUSE Posted: Dec 7 2007, 06:42 PM
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I think the lesson would benefit from a few case studies. Here are 2
of copperfields bases. I think these are a great place to look at
bases.
Lets answer the following questions:
1. What is the base made of?
2. what is the position of the person(s) inside the base
3. what makes this base so deceptive?
4. how does the loading work?
5. How does light play a part in deception?
6. What is the approximate load space size?
THE ELEVATOR BASE:
THE SNOW BASE (zimmerman base)
--------------------
Dr. HOUSE Posted: Dec 9 2007, 07:40 AM
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cmon guys! lets talk about these things.
--------------------
Magic Max Posted: Dec 9 2007, 04:43 PM
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1) what is the base made of?
Usually bases are constructed with plywood, and sometimes sheet metal.
The cross weave design in plywood makes a thin sheet strong. They also
use aluminum trim to protect the protruding corners of the base.
Either a solid hinge trapdoor or spandex stretched over the hole is
the entry into the hiding space of the base.
2) In both bases (the elevator base, and Zimmerman base), the the
person is in a lying-down position. The only difference is in the way
that they are lying down. In the elevator base, it would be more of a
curled up position, and in the Zimmerman base, a lying flat position.
3) The bases are deceptive due to the horizontal lines described in my
previous post. The Zimmerman base is deceptive because the hiding area
of the base extends upwards into the 4 inch trim on the bottom of the
little table on the base.
4) I would use black spandex to cover both traps into the bases for
easy and fast movement.
5) The lighting is im****tant because if it is too bright, it is easy
to see how think the base is, but if it is too dark, you can't see
what's happening on stage. Having the light ****ning from upstage
allows the dark sections of the base to hide a little similar to black
art.
6) I do not know the exact thickness of both bases, but I assume that
they would be be about 8-10 inches thick.
--------------------
What ever it is... I didn't do it.
Dr. HOUSE Posted: Dec 9 2007, 04:47 PM
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Do you think the the position the person takes in the elevator base
would be the fetal position?
Its the postion that gives the smallest length and breath of the base
but it also has the most depth because of the hip bone.
What about the "fish pose"? like laying down except legs are crossed?
--------------------
Magic Max Posted: Dec 9 2007, 07:01 PM
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It could be the "fish pose", but I think that the position could a
little bit different. I do not know the name of it, but maybe someone
does. To best describe the position, the person is lying on their side
with their knees to their chest. Then they rotate their shoulders to
lie on their back, keeping their knees somewhat curled up to their
side.
Another way that a base is deceptive is the use of the wedge. The thin
edge is towards the audience, and it tapers out towards the back. The
taper can add more space inside of the base, yet convincing the
audience is much thiner. Here is a wedge style of base.
--------------------
What ever it is... I didn't do it.
billpage Posted: Dec 12 2007, 01:44 PM
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cool yep even hllow stairs for fast stealthy get aways secretly right
in front of every live audience and tv viewing audience even out side
megga stage illusions markand brians box to helicopter in mid air and
franz harary box falls apart that frans harary istage illusionist is
in poof! hes gone! he now on side of helicopter landing down on runway
tar mac idea:)
ps cool franz harary helped mark and brin box to helicopter idea:)
uses hollow high table idea ps ne of my friends david drew duncan
pointed this out playing vhstape on big tv screen:)
i was used to extra helpers in cap and suites idea never thought
hightowerhollow table idea
ps check your ocal tv stations worlds magic awards 2007 2hour illusion
special event
http://www.tvmagicguide.com
(Edit: Magic Max)
Dr. HOUSE Posted: Dec 14 2007, 06:19 PM
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look how thick this one is
--------------------
Magic Max Posted: Dec 14 2007, 10:11 PM
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It looks really thick, but keep in mind that it is a 2D photo that we
are looking at. When you view an illusion live (in 3D) The bases look
a lot thinner.
--------------------
What ever it is... I didn't do it.
Dr. HOUSE Posted: Dec 15 2007, 11:24 AM
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thats david copperfield by the way on his very first special:the
magic of abc.
and tv is 2d
notice how the legs extend upwards to disguise that black area
--------------------
KevinE2X Posted: Dec 15 2007, 01:42 PM
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Also don't forget this is most likely a 'backstage with the magician'
illusion, so there will be a kicker at the end and produce a second or
third person...which now makes the base seem smaller after the fact.
I will add that if the legs were taller it would make the base seem
thinner in pro****tion to them.
Kevin
billpage Posted: Dec 17 2007, 09:51 PM
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i have all vhs tapes of illusonist david copperfild and doug henning
illusionistand all of sig frig and roy stage illusion specials:)
also:)
thanks to cool illusionist jay gorham film and tape libarrien:)
he even makes trades for vhs tapes:)
you are able to bring backa time macine from illusion magical specials
to tv shows with magical themed ideas even alf and brady bunch ,
familly matters you get the idea:)
even ramboo, princess tenko and scoobe do extc tv cdomcerials ususing
stageillusions to make cars vanish or truck appear to make a point
in there tv comericals ideas like food lion guy sawing a girl in half
saying we dont have to cut prices in half cause at food lion are
priceses are allways low prices:)
or carl valtine makes lol hehehe hal a gray hound bus vanish lol
hehehe
and stage illusionist david copperfield for target comericals and
merrott hotl comercals showing how stage illusions are done even his
ideas onhow to walk thru china wall and statue of liberty vaish now
thats cool huh:)
see all stage illusionist like being a neat maskedmagician even
copperfield, herbert l becker, franz harary, and cool johnathen
pendragon:) and princess tenko helping masked magicin vallentino:)
penn and teller too:)
i even under stand franz haray and blackstone jr teamed up to expose
the thin model sawing stage illusion they realeved this fact in a
genni magzine or magic magazine
and now criss angel and amazing radnidi tell how stage illusions are
done
even cartoons too:)
and batmantv sereies
and the green hornet tv series
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.magic.secrets/topics
billpage Posted: Dec 18 2007, 10:20 PM
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speakingof hollow stairs and hollow bases hers same info on david
copperfields cool stage outside illusion walking thrugh the Great Wall
Of China
This post has been edited by QED on Feb 1 2008, 09:48 PM
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