On Fri, 15 Jun 2007 16:59:35 -0700, in sci.archaeology, Roy Jose Lorr
wrote:
>Linda Lee wrote:
>> On Jun 15, 8:40 am, Nomen Nescio <nob...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>>
>>>On Thu, 14 Jun 2007 "Atheist are Stooges" <Atheist.Stoo...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>"Apobetics" <apobe...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>>>>news:1181863595.553687.80680@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>>
>>>>>On Jun 14, 11:14 am, "Atheist are Stooges"
<Atheist.Stoo...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>"Tiktaalik" <corneliusjmch...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On Jun 14, 4:40 pm, Apobetics aka
>>>>>>>IKnowIAmAnOffensivePieceOfOrdure<apobe...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wailed:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>The Myth of Evolution
>>>>>>>>"Dr. Louis Bounoure, former director of research at the French
>>>>>>>>National Center for Scientific Research, calls evolution "a fairy
tale
>>>>>>>>for grown-ups." It actually is a cruel hoax! In fact, the
arguments
>>>>>>>>that are used to sup****t evolutionary theory are astoni****ngly
weak
>>>>>>>>and many are downright frauds.
>>>>>>>>First, the fossil record is an embarrassment to evolutionists. No
>>>>>>>>verifiable transitions from one kind to another have as yet been
>>>>>>>>found.
I won't bother about this nonsense of transitions, it just shows once
again that Creationists either haven't a clue about evolution or are just
liars. But I did look up Bounoure:
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/ce/3/part12.html
The Talk.Origins Archive: Exploring the Creation/Evolution Controversy
Cretinism or Evilution? No. 3
[send email to ebabinsk@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
via gmail] E.T. Babinski
More Out of Context Quotations of French Scientists
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Old, Out of Context Quotations from French Scientists
Part 2
Concerning the quotation with which this section began, let's repeat it
here:
"Evolutionism is a fairy tale for grown-ups. This theory has helped
nothing in the progress of science. It is useless."
- Prof. Louis Bounoure (Former President of the Biological Society of
Strasbourg and Director of the Strasbourg Zoological Museum, later
Director of Research at the French National Centre of Scientific
Research), as quoted in The Advocate, Thursday 8 March 1984, p. 17. (p. 5
of The Revised Quote Book)
Since the Revised Quote Book stated that "Prof. Bounoure" had served as
the "Director of Research" at the "French National Centre of Scientific
Research" I wrote the Center [The Centre National de la Recherche
Scientifique = The National Center for Scientific Research]. I asked them
about the exact origin of the quotation and received the following reply,
dated March 3, 1995 (translated by professional French translator, Jacques
Benbassat, with some minor editing and paragraphs re-arranged in an easier
to follow order):
Dear Mr. Babinski,
The new director general of the CNRS [i.e., the National Center for
Scientific Research in France], Mr. Guy Aubert, has given me your letter
of December 6, 1994, in which you requested several points of information
concerning the quotations by French scientists, concerning the theory of
evolution.
Here is the information I was able to gather:
The beginning of the quotation, "Evolution is a fairy tale for adults"
is not from Bounoure but from Jean Rostand, a much more famous French
biologist (he was a member of the Academy of Sciences of the French
Academy). The precise quotation is as follows: "Transformism is a fairy
tale for adults." (Age Nouveau, [a French periodical] February 1959, p.
12). But Rostand has also written that "Transformism may be considered as
accepted, and no scientist, no philosopher, no longer discusses [questions
- ED.] the fact of evolution." (L'Evolution des Especes [i.e., The
Evolution of the Species], Hachette, p. 190). Jean Rostand was ... an
atheist.
The [end] of the quotation of Professor Bounoure to which you allude
is taken from his book, Determinism and Finality, edited by Flammarion,
1957, p. 79. The precise quotation is the following: "That, by this,
evolutionism would appear as a theory without value, is confirmed also
pragmatically. A theory must not be required to be true, said Mr. H.
Poincare, more or less, it must be required to be useable. Indeed, none of
the progress made in biology depends even slightly on a theory, the
principles of which [i.e., of how evolution occurs -- ED.] are
nevertheless filling every year volumes of books, periodicals, and
congresses with their discussions and their disagreements."
[Obviously, Bounoure was expressing his distaste at those in his day who
argued over the "principles" of evolution, "how" it took place, whether
via Lamarckian or Darwinian "evolutionism." Bounoure probably thought that
such "principles" were not worth all the "discussions and disagreements"
since they were not well understood, were yet to be discovered, and
perhaps might not be discovered, i.e., if supernatural intervention into
the evolutionary process was accepted. Bounoure was a theist. He also
probably thought that more practical scientific investigations needed to
be pursued and less "discussions and disagreements." - ED.]
As far as we know, Louis Bounoure never served as ["Director" nor was
even] a member of the CNRS. He was a professor of biology at the
University of Strasbourg. Bounoure was a Christian but did not affirm that
Genesis was to be taken to the letter. He expressed his ideas in his work.
He is clearly "finalist" and against all contingent visions of evolution.
["Finalism" is a philosophical term related to a belief in ultimate
purpose or design behind everything, including, in this case, the
evolution of the cosmos and of life. - ED.] He bases his views, among
other things, on the existence of elements that are pre-adapted for their
future functions.
[In my letter to the CNRS I also asked whether the quotation might not
have originated with another French scientist, "Paul Lemoine," to whom the
televangelist James D. Kennedy has incorrectly attributed the quotation.
And here was the answer they gave to that question. -- ED.]
As far as Paul Lemoine is concerned, he is indeed a "famous French
scientist" since he was the director of the National Museum of Natural
History. In the Encyclopedie Francaise [French Encyclopedia, circa 1950s],
volume 5, he wrote the following: "It results from this explanation that
the theory of evolution is not exact ... Evolution is a kind of dogma
which its own priests no longer believe, but which they uphold for the
people. It is necessary to have the courage to state this if only so that
men of a future generation may orient their research into a different
direction." And this quotation often circulates among anti-evolutionist
groups.
Paul Lemoine was an atheist, and he was against the theory of
evolution because he felt it was not a good explanation of the origin of
living beings and by showing its limits risked to discredit materialism.
Although this point was not very clear we believe that when he spoke of
"the theory of evolution" he was actually addressing the explanation of
specifically [how] evolution [occurred] and not the [more general idea] of
evolution itself.
The problem [of the origin of the quotation] apparently stems from the
confusion in the discourse of these three scientists between the fact of
evolution and the explanation of this fact. None were creationists but
they all felt that the explanations given for the understanding of
evolution were insufficient, even totally inexact.
This is the information that I am able to give you. if you would like
to have more details, you could write to Jean Staune, Institut de
Paleontologie Humaine, 1 rue Rene Panhard - 75013 Paris. This institute is
associated with our own: The National Center of Scientific Research.
Very truly yours,
Marie-Antoinette de Lumley
Since writing this section on quotations from French scientists, I have
browsed the TALK.ORIGINS section of the Internet and seen a creationist
incorrectly attribute the quotation, "Evolution is a fairy-tale for
adults," to "Pierre P. Grasse," the French biologist whom I mentioned
earlier and who wrote that evolution was a "fact!"
Some of the responses to a French scientist stating "Evolution is a
fairy-tale..." included Jeff Shallit's: "The French have had a bug up
their a-- about Darwin since the Origin of Species was published. I think
it's a case of the NIH (Not Invented Here) syndrome. I know at least two
college educated French people who could not even recognize Darwin's name.
Perhaps even today Darwin continues to get short shrift in France. Anyway,
the claim that 'evolution is a fairy-tale' is nice, but where's the
evidence for a competing theory? We in TALK.ORIGINS have been waiting
years for that evidence."
Speaking of science education in European countries, Omni (Sept. 1987)
published a letter by a Mr. Fabio Femino of Messina, Italy, who said that
"The doctrine of creation has been taught in Italy's public schools -- by
law -- since 1929, displacing the theory of evolution." [Note: Italy
remains one third Catholic, one third communist, and one third apathetic
toward Catholicism and communism. -- ED.] Mr. Femino continued, "There are
no Italian popular science books in bookshops. Popular science magazines
are almost unknown. Astrology and witchcraft, however, are spreading
fast." [So, teaching creationism to the youth is no cure for either
communism or the occult! -- ED.]
And, as apartheid South Africa has taught us, teaching creationism in
public schools and churches for a hundred years can also go hand in hand
with racism. In fact, some of Carl Sagan's episodes of his popular science
program, COSMOS, were banned from being shown on public television in
South Africa strictly because they dealt with evolution.
Another correspondent on TALK.ORIGINS, Alan Filipski, added, "The validity
of the Theory of Evolution by Natural Selection does not depend on a quote
by anyone, Nobel prize winner or Pope. There are a number of scientists
(e.g. Fred Hoyle) who have done great work and also hold eccentric
opinions on certain scientific matters. So what? Quotations are not facts
about the natural world. Science progresses despite (and sometimes because
of) eccentric individuals, but no individual's opinions are revered as
facts. The process [of scientific investigation] retains the true and
discards the false."
E.T. BABINSKI
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