Doug Weller wrote:
> On Fri, 15 Jun 2007 16:59:35 -0700, in sci.archaeology, Roy Jose Lorr
> wrote:
>
>
>>Linda Lee wrote:
>>
>>>On Jun 15, 8:40 am, Nomen Nescio <nob...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>On Thu, 14 Jun 2007 "Atheist are Stooges" <Atheist.Stoo...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>"Apobetics" <apobe...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote in message
>>>>>news:1181863595.553687.80680@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>On Jun 14, 11:14 am, "Atheist are Stooges"
<Atheist.Stoo...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>"Tiktaalik" <corneliusjmch...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On Jun 14, 4:40 pm, Apobetics aka
>>>>>>>>IKnowIAmAnOffensivePieceOfOrdure<apobe...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wailed:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>The Myth of Evolution
>>>>>>>>>"Dr. Louis Bounoure, former director of research at the French
>>>>>>>>>National Center for Scientific Research, calls evolution "a fairy
tale
>>>>>>>>>for grown-ups." It actually is a cruel hoax! In fact, the
arguments
>>>>>>>>>that are used to sup****t evolutionary theory are astoni****ngly
weak
>>>>>>>>>and many are downright frauds.
>>>>>>>>>First, the fossil record is an embarrassment to evolutionists.
No
>>>>>>>>>verifiable transitions from one kind to another have as yet been
>>>>>>>>>found.
>
>
> I won't bother about this nonsense of transitions, it just shows once
> again that Creationists either haven't a clue about evolution or are
just
> liars. But I did look up Bounoure:
>
> http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/ce/3/part12.html
> The Talk.Origins Archive: Exploring the Creation/Evolution Controversy
>
> Cretinism or Evilution? No. 3
> [send email to ebabinsk@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
via gmail] E.T. Babinski
> More Out of Context Quotations of French Scientists
>
>
> Previous
> Contents
> Next
>
> Old, Out of Context Quotations from French Scientists
> Part 2
>
> Concerning the quotation with which this section began, let's repeat it
> here:
>
> "Evolutionism is a fairy tale for grown-ups. This theory has helped
> nothing in the progress of science. It is useless."
>
> - Prof. Louis Bounoure (Former President of the Biological Society
of
> Strasbourg and Director of the Strasbourg Zoological Museum, later
> Director of Research at the French National Centre of Scientific
> Research), as quoted in The Advocate, Thursday 8 March 1984, p. 17. (p.
5
> of The Revised Quote Book)
>
> Since the Revised Quote Book stated that "Prof. Bounoure" had served as
> the "Director of Research" at the "French National Centre of Scientific
> Research" I wrote the Center [The Centre National de la Recherche
> Scientifique = The National Center for Scientific Research]. I asked
them
> about the exact origin of the quotation and received the following
reply,
> dated March 3, 1995 (translated by professional French translator,
Jacques
> Benbassat, with some minor editing and paragraphs re-arranged in an
easier
> to follow order):
>
> Dear Mr. Babinski,
>
> The new director general of the CNRS [i.e., the National Center for
> Scientific Research in France], Mr. Guy Aubert, has given me your letter
> of December 6, 1994, in which you requested several points of
information
> concerning the quotations by French scientists, concerning the theory of
> evolution.
>
> Here is the information I was able to gather:
>
> The beginning of the quotation, "Evolution is a fairy tale for
adults"
> is not from Bounoure but from Jean Rostand, a much more famous French
> biologist (he was a member of the Academy of Sciences of the French
> Academy). The precise quotation is as follows: "Transformism is a fairy
> tale for adults." (Age Nouveau, [a French periodical] February 1959, p.
> 12). But Rostand has also written that "Transformism may be considered
as
> accepted, and no scientist, no philosopher, no longer discusses
[questions
> - ED.] the fact of evolution." (L'Evolution des Especes [i.e., The
> Evolution of the Species], Hachette, p. 190). Jean Rostand was ... an
> atheist.
>
> The [end] of the quotation of Professor Bounoure to which you allude
> is taken from his book, Determinism and Finality, edited by Flammarion,
> 1957, p. 79. The precise quotation is the following: "That, by this,
> evolutionism would appear as a theory without value, is confirmed also
> pragmatically. A theory must not be required to be true, said Mr. H.
> Poincare, more or less, it must be required to be useable. Indeed, none
of
> the progress made in biology depends even slightly on a theory, the
> principles of which [i.e., of how evolution occurs -- ED.] are
> nevertheless filling every year volumes of books, periodicals, and
> congresses with their discussions and their disagreements."
>
> [Obviously, Bounoure was expressing his distaste at those in his day who
> argued over the "principles" of evolution, "how" it took place, whether
> via Lamarckian or Darwinian "evolutionism." Bounoure probably thought
that
> such "principles" were not worth all the "discussions and disagreements"
> since they were not well understood, were yet to be discovered, and
> perhaps might not be discovered, i.e., if supernatural intervention into
> the evolutionary process was accepted. Bounoure was a theist. He also
> probably thought that more practical scientific investigations needed to
> be pursued and less "discussions and disagreements." - ED.]
>
> As far as we know, Louis Bounoure never served as ["Director" nor
was
> even] a member of the CNRS. He was a professor of biology at the
> University of Strasbourg. Bounoure was a Christian but did not affirm
that
> Genesis was to be taken to the letter. He expressed his ideas in his
work.
> He is clearly "finalist" and against all contingent visions of
evolution.
> ["Finalism" is a philosophical term related to a belief in ultimate
> purpose or design behind everything, including, in this case, the
> evolution of the cosmos and of life. - ED.] He bases his views, among
> other things, on the existence of elements that are pre-adapted for
their
> future functions.
>
> [In my letter to the CNRS I also asked whether the quotation might not
> have originated with another French scientist, "Paul Lemoine," to whom
the
> televangelist James D. Kennedy has incorrectly attributed the quotation.
> And here was the answer they gave to that question. -- ED.]
>
> As far as Paul Lemoine is concerned, he is indeed a "famous French
> scientist" since he was the director of the National Museum of Natural
> History. In the Encyclopedie Francaise [French Encyclopedia, circa
1950s],
> volume 5, he wrote the following: "It results from this explanation that
> the theory of evolution is not exact ... Evolution is a kind of dogma
> which its own priests no longer believe, but which they uphold for the
> people. It is necessary to have the courage to state this if only so
that
> men of a future generation may orient their research into a different
> direction." And this quotation often circulates among anti-evolutionist
> groups.
>
> Paul Lemoine was an atheist, and he was against the theory of
> evolution because he felt it was not a good explanation of the origin of
> living beings and by showing its limits risked to discredit materialism.
> Although this point was not very clear we believe that when he spoke of
> "the theory of evolution" he was actually addressing the explanation of
> specifically [how] evolution [occurred] and not the [more general idea]
of
> evolution itself.
>
> The problem [of the origin of the quotation] apparently stems from
the
> confusion in the discourse of these three scientists between the fact of
> evolution and the explanation of this fact. None were creationists but
> they all felt that the explanations given for the understanding of
> evolution were insufficient, even totally inexact.
>
> This is the information that I am able to give you. if you would
like
> to have more details, you could write to Jean Staune, Institut de
> Paleontologie Humaine, 1 rue Rene Panhard - 75013 Paris. This institute
is
> associated with our own: The National Center of Scientific Research.
>
> Very truly yours,
> Marie-Antoinette de Lumley
>
> Since writing this section on quotations from French scientists, I have
> browsed the TALK.ORIGINS section of the Internet and seen a creationist
> incorrectly attribute the quotation, "Evolution is a fairy-tale for
> adults," to "Pierre P. Grasse," the French biologist whom I mentioned
> earlier and who wrote that evolution was a "fact!"
>
> Some of the responses to a French scientist stating "Evolution is a
> fairy-tale..." included Jeff Shallit's: "The French have had a bug up
> their a-- about Darwin since the Origin of Species was published. I
think
> it's a case of the NIH (Not Invented Here) syndrome. I know at least two
> college educated French people who could not even recognize Darwin's
name.
> Perhaps even today Darwin continues to get short shrift in France.
Anyway,
> the claim that 'evolution is a fairy-tale' is nice, but where's the
> evidence for a competing theory? We in TALK.ORIGINS have been waiting
> years for that evidence."
>
> Speaking of science education in European countries, Omni (Sept. 1987)
> published a letter by a Mr. Fabio Femino of Messina, Italy, who said
that
> "The doctrine of creation has been taught in Italy's public schools --
by
> law -- since 1929, displacing the theory of evolution." [Note: Italy
> remains one third Catholic, one third communist, and one third apathetic
> toward Catholicism and communism. -- ED.] Mr. Femino continued, "There
are
> no Italian popular science books in bookshops. Popular science magazines
> are almost unknown. Astrology and witchcraft, however, are spreading
> fast." [So, teaching creationism to the youth is no cure for either
> communism or the occult! -- ED.]
>
> And, as apartheid South Africa has taught us, teaching creationism in
> public schools and churches for a hundred years can also go hand in hand
> with racism. In fact, some of Carl Sagan's episodes of his popular
science
> program, COSMOS, were banned from being shown on public television in
> South Africa strictly because they dealt with evolution.
>
> Another correspondent on TALK.ORIGINS, Alan Filipski, added, "The
validity
> of the Theory of Evolution by Natural Selection does not depend on a
quote
> by anyone, Nobel prize winner or Pope. There are a number of scientists
> (e.g. Fred Hoyle) who have done great work and also hold eccentric
> opinions on certain scientific matters. So what? Quotations are not
facts
> about the natural world. Science progresses despite (and sometimes
because
> of) eccentric individuals, but no individual's opinions are revered as
> facts. The process [of scientific investigation] retains the true and
> discards the false."
>
> E.T. BABINSKI
>
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> But we know Creationists don't care about facts.
>
> Doug
Why did you address this load of crap to me: Roy Jose Lorr?
|
