On May 29, 9:18=A0pm, David Deley <del...@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
> If you're interested in learning more in this direction, you can read
> the fascinating result of my 5 years of studying the follow-up question,
> "If Christianity is all bunk, then where did it come from?"
>
> I discovered:
>
> 1. There is an immense lack of historical evidence that Jesus ever
> existed. There is absolutely none. The story is a myth.
>
> So if Jesus is a myth, then where did this Jesus Story come from?
>
> 2. Crucified Saviors existed in many religions prior to the alleged time
> of Jesus. (Christian forefathers had a fit trying to explain this.)
>
> If this story is so prevalent, seemingly universal, existing eons before
> the alleged time of Jesus, then what does the story mean?
>
> 3. The Story is an Astronomical Allegory for the Sun passing through the
> Zodiac each year. The sun is the original god that dies on the winter
> solstice and is reborn/resurrected 3 days later, on Christmas day!
>
> This last assertion is a bit tentative, but upon examination of the
> Jesus Story it's incredible just how much of it actually fits! And it
> provides a rational explanation for the origin of religion.
>
> Humans were first hunter/gatherers, then they organized and became
> farmers=97and this is where religion comes in. In order to farm you need
> to be aware of the seasons of the year; you need to be able to
> communicate to others your ideas; and you need to be able to pass down
> to the next generation the knowledge you've ac***ulated=97hence =93The
> Book=94. You also have to have FAITH that this farming technique will
work=
> and you will be rewarded for your efforts with a bountiful harvest in
> the future.
>
> If this theory is correct then ancient Religion was archaic science and
> modern science is our new religion.
>
> Lessons explaining basic concepts of observational astronomy, and then
> showing the striking parallels between the Jesus Story and the Sun's
> annual passage through the Zodiac and the changing seasons of the year,
> are at:
>
> http://members.cox.net/deleyd/religion/index.htm
>
>
>
> Carl Sagan's billions wrote:
> > In my younger years I struggled for a long time trying to
> > understand and make sense of Christianity.
>
> > I contemplated and struggled with its basic doctrines, the core
> > beliefs, the philosophies, the essence, the teachings
> > and also the contradictions in Old and New Testament.
> > I thought about the behavior of warrior so-called Christian nations,
> > often wreaking havoc in non-Christian countries (and now again
> > conducting horrible bombing wars on non-Christian people
> > in Afghanistan and Iraq and Somalia).
> > I tried to understand Genesis/creation, Adam and Eve, the first
> > couple, Noah, the flood, the many prophets, the Messiah, the
> > crucifixion, the resurrection, the many other stories and prophecies
> > in the Bible, etc... I tried to apply reason and logic and
> > understand it in the grand scheme of things.
>
> > Then slowly (over at least 5 years) I came to understand several
> > truths described below. These truths allowed me to gradually throw
> > off the yoke, the blinders and the intellectual shackles of a long
> > childhood indoctrination in Christianity, and =A0amazingly and
> > steadily and happily and irreversibly
>
> > I =A0 BECAME =A0 FREE =A0----- =A0FOREVER ------!
>
> > That was still pretty dramatic, e.g., when I read Robinson's
> > Honest-to-God and his brave search for answers (searches
> > beyond the usual Christian dogmas) I cried and ****vered
> > for hours. He made me see the first glimmer of light and hope
> > in my own search. This was followed by Teilhard de Chardin's
> > elaborate ideas of increasing complexity, Dobzhansky's books
> > on evolution, Bertrand Russell's courage and ideas,
> > and books on comparative religions, and many more.
>
> > 'There was no need to fight and struggle anymore - forever':
> > Not due to surrender, but due to liberation: Liberation from
> > irrationality, illogic, and indoctrination in ancient religious
> > beliefs.
>
> > I understood ---- and (as happened with Galileo when he understood
> > the earth position and path in the solar system) these insights
> > and this freedom were irreversible. =A0I saw the reality of religions,
> > and with that the mental captivity I had been in in one of them,
> > Christianity (as well as the other related mono-theistic religions
> > Islam and Judaism), was broken - - =A0and =A0forever.
>
> > The mind broke free and I was off flying unen***bered.
> > No longer mentally stunted, no longer kept in intellectual bondage,
> > no longer bogged down and in eternal confusion about things
> > written in ancient 'holy' books and derived religious texts.
>
> > These are the 10 basic (simplified) truths I came to understand:
>
> > 1. All religions and gods are 'man' made, made and made up
> > by humans. Not necessarily to deceive but as a result of new
> > ideas and concepts. These evolved over generations and were
> > then gradually accepted and written down as the (new) truth, the
> > (new) philosophy of life, the (new) gospel, the (new) 'true'
> > religion.
>
> > 2. The Christian concept and definition of a 'soul' is untenable.
>
> > Why? Evolution is a fact but nowhere in the long line of evolution
> > was the 'soul' (or something like the soul that makes us immortal)
> > suddenly inserted in a certain species at a discrete point in time.
> > If I assume that the soul was suddenly inserted in a living
> > being, e.g., 1 million years ago, we must then argue that his
> > or her father and mother did not have a soul. We cannot.
>
> > This means:
>
> > All living beings have a soul or no living beings have a soul. =A0As I
> > don't believe a worm has a soul, I must conclude that the concept
> > of a soul in each human being is a man-made construct.
> > A man-made construct because we have a need to believe that
> > we (or at least our 'spirit' or our 'soul') are immortal and will
> > exist forever.
>
> > We fear death; we cannot accept being gone forever.
> > We want to deny death; we need to believe we are immortal.
> > We have a deep need to formulate a reason for our existence.
> > We have a deep need to believe that we will outlast all the
> > pain and misery in our earth-bound lives and will 'live happily
> > ever after' in a glorious place of light and joy called 'heaven'.
>
> > 3. There is no heaven and hell. All religions are man-made, and
> > the concepts of heaven and hell are man-made. They were created
> > when social groups evolved culturally: =A0To keep individual behavior
> > in line and within boundaries - to be beneficial to the group or to
> > its leaders. Heaven was a carrot, hell was the stick.
>
> > 4. The Christian dogma of sin, with human beings having free choice
> > to obey or disobey, is untenable, as 'sin', killing, fighting, etc.,
> > already existed millions of years before human beings came about.
>
> > That means in the long line of evolution there was never a discrete
> > point where the 'first' human being suddenly had free choice to obey
> > or disobey. =A0That also means the dogma of Christ's death at the
cross
> > to atone for our sins is untenable. Human beings evolved and never
> > (suddenly) had free choice to obey or dis-obey (=3Dsin).
>
> > The man-made Christian God sacrificed his son to atone for all
> > sins for all people forever for all times. That brilliant idea of
> > hope and total redemption and forgiveness by the almighty ruler
> > arose from much older pagan religions that had human sacrifices
> > at their core:
>
> > The ultimate sacrifice, as proof of total obedience and wor****p,
> > is giving your own most valuable 'asset', which is to give up and
> > offer/sacrifice your own son (example in the Abraham-Isaac story).
> > That's why 'man' eventually came up with the idea that Christ
> > - the Son, God's Son - was sacrificed by God, the Father, and
> > died for the sins of all mankind.
>
> > This was a BRILLIANT and unlimited expansion of the original
> > idea behind human sacrifices:
> > Not only did the all-powerful God himself give part of himself (the
> > Son) as the sacrifice, this sacrifice was so big,
> > so ALL encompassing that it forgave ALL sins of ALL human
> > beings for ALL times -- forever.
>
> > This idea is really mind-boggling in its ingenuity, scope and depth,
> > and that may also explain some of its universal appeal.
>
> > However as our species, Homo Sapiens, evolved over millions of
> > years, there was never an Adam and Eve 6000 years ago.
> > That means Eve disobeying God and eating from the fruit
> > never happened. That means the 'fall' in the garden of Eden
> > never happened. =A0That also means a 'fall' e.g. a million years
> > earlier never happened.
>
> > That means the philosophy of Jesus Christ having to die for our
> > original sin, for us disobeying God, has no basis in fact.
> > Our ancestors millions of years ago did not have the
> > intellectual capacity nor the choice to obey or disobey.
>
> > Even if the ideas of original sin and the fall are allegories,
> > they do not make sense in view of the path of our evolution.
>
> > 5. The Christian concept that you can only be saved by accepting
> > Christ as your savior is untenable. As over 4.5 billion on earth are
> > not Christians and may not even know about Jesus Christ,
> > it is illogical to assume that God automatically condemns
> > 4.5 billion out of 6.5 billion to hell =3D eternal suffering.
>
> > There are also over 100-200 billion stars in our own galaxy,
> > and a total of 100-200 billion OTHER galaxies in the visible
> > universe, each on average containing over 100 billion stars.
>
> > Assuming only 1 planet with an intelligent 'civilization' per 1
> > billion
> > stars (a very conservative estimate) then there are over
> > 10,000 billion (!) 'civilized' planets in our visible universe.
> > It is illogical to assume that God sacrificed his son on tens
> > or even thousands of billions of planets.
>
> > 6. All religions are man-made, which explains the huge variety of
> > religions. Any evolving human society develops beliefs about life
> > and death, which then often morph into absolute beliefs and then
> > finally into structured beliefs =3D organized religion.
>
> > That's why there are so many religions, so many
>
> ...
>
> read more =BB- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
All these arguments suck. Everyone who isn't an Xist sucks. Even Xists
suck.
God Sux most of all.
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