Neolithic a écrit :
> On Sat, 28 Jun 2008 11:56:58 +0200, Bob Thomson <niet@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> wrote:
>
>> (...)
>>>
>>> Old Irish is similar to Phoenician...
>>>
>>> Neolithic
>>
>> Good to know, thanks. At this point, let's say that there is plenty of
>> already found clues about a relatively high level of communication in
>> the IE world between what were mostly wrongly seen as isolated
cultures.
>
> I suspect that there was some human contact across the Atlantic prior
> to the arrival of the Norsemen. I suspect that Basque fishermen and
> maybe some Irish monks also travelled to the Americas before 1000
> AD...I suspect, I don't know. I'd be interested to know the truth. I'm
> fascinated
For obviously good reasons, which I share.
Then it might be of interest to know that according to a small, but
academic in nature, French review about the Yi Jing that I was reading
ages ago, a Chinese statue from the bronze age was found in a cave in
Southern America.
>> The people of our times had to get rid of at least two obstacles, the
>> monotheist systems wanting to abolish up to the memory of anything that
>> was different (or demonizing it when it couldn't), and later on, closer
>> to us, the nationalisms based on a modern idea of state that tried to
>> get more interested in a remote past, like the idea of Gaul becoming
>> fa****onable again in France's third republic in the late 19th and early
>> 20th centuries, to mention something familiar, but in a superficial way
>> and with a selfish and bloody agenda in mind.
>
> Could you be more specific about this agenda please?
Tons of piles of threads covering various aspects could be usefully
written on this topic. Maybe the best would be to start from the (known)
beginnings and very broad lines, so that the eons that followed up will
be (hopefully) clearer.
From what I have grasped so far, some Deities from at least one group
have had an interest on Earth, dating back to... Mesozoic, Paleozoïc and
even possibly before, while the planet itself was taking shape. This
does not necessarily mean something about their age in a straightforward
way, with a unique, linear time scale for both planes, since seen from
our ordinary reality level, they can play with (our) time.
Up to know, I mainly worked on IE Deities, and the sooner said, the
best, I still nearly totally lack knowledge about some groups of
Deities, like from Aborigine America or Oceania.
Among those IE Deities, I think that the Asatru tradition expresses more
clearly than elsewhere (the Greeks having put things in a way that did
not permit me to see this bit very clearly) the distinction between two
groups, Aesir and Vanir. I think that one way or another, at least most
of those Deities tem****arily "left aside" in my reasoning can be
considered as belonging to either of those groups, in a way that does
not hamper my idea (as seen below).
What I'm suggesting here is that the Vanir are the Earth's Deities,
while the Aesir correspond to a bigger structure, extraterrestrial in
nature - each individual world having their own "Vanir". I'm leaving
aside for now the issue of a possible intermediate level, like for all
worlds around a star. The relative equality of im****tance of both groups
would be a local thing - seen at the relative level of each and any
planet considered on an individual basis. And the issue of an alliance
between those groups would be a major issue everywhere.
I'll now try to explain how it all fits with those two layers.
Overall, as well explained in studies on Asatru traditions, the Vanir
are more "local". There would be a distinction between those groups like
between county/region versus state/federal level. I'm also saying this
because I understood quite some time ago that Deities are totally
awakened beings who, well... are in charge of something. Not that there
is a permanent turn-over, but once you have the chance to meet the same
one both on and off duty, like I did with Lady Death (Western lore) aka
Persephone (Greek legends) aka (thanks for filling the blank here),
well, there was indeed a noticeable difference between the imperious
person she can be "at work" - me then assisting to the *****sment
(judgement) of a soul at the end of its incarnation, or even once, an
initiatory rape for my first time in her "working place", and a moment
with her with a visit to some tavern (with dragons among customers) and
more private stuff. This distinction gradually proved true for more or
less all the other ones with wbich I have some sort of contact in
spirit, each time revealed at an adequate time as chosen by them, and
through various op****tunities.
Sorry for being detailed, that's the pitfall here, it was in order to
show briefly the kind of first-hand or straight account material on
which I initially work from. I spontaneously tend to read books about
legends or ask questions on N.G. at a later stage, so that my mind has
not been cluttered by a generally admitted version of what I would be
supposed to actually find in a given direction, whatever it is. This is
also a reminder of how things ARE first shown Up Above (if deemed worth
of it), then put into sagas and tales. Then only come the most ancient
books we kept up to now, their translations, academic studies, more or
less "serious" works of art and even sayings in everyday's language.
At the global, or Aesir level, there is going to be a central ruler
(well, rather a royal couple - in OUR part of the Universe, that is),
who is Odin and Frigg for Asatru / Zeus and Hera for Greek etc. There
are their major helpers - sorts of ministers, each with their own field.
And lots and lots of little hands.
At the planet, or Vanir level, one is going to find a local equivalent.
The German political system at the federal and regional level, the
latter looking like a miniature of the former, is a very good example.
The Aesir concept of ambassador I find quite interesting, as it is the
SAME person who is going to work both ways: representing the Aesir
(global) level for the Vanir (planet) level, and ALSO the reverse.
He/she might also represent the Aesir during a mission somewhere, like
in another global system or a planet not yet affiliated.
Note that this is all very clever setup, because it eliminates lots of
conflicts between the two levels, which the known History of Earth is
filled with examples of. It forces the ambassador to be, organically, a
true living hyphen betwsen those two levels. If things go wrong, he's
going to be on the front line, both ways. What I grasped was that here
on Earth, it could possibly be the job of one with mixed origins, child
of an Aesir AND of a Vanir.
Now, as many around very well know, here comes the **** - as there has
been a true war ongoing between two ****tions of the Vanir (Greek titans)
among which there has been an isolationist vision (think about the
former stalinian Albania) and a "federal" option (like for, say, a small
Slovenia - assuming for a split second that the EU complies to its
original ideal, which is something that I don't hold as true).
Also, keep in mind that at least seen from the Aesir level, Earth is not
considered as a very advanced planet. I still lack many pieces of the
puzzle, but I think that life on Earth may have been started as a "soul
nursery" Aesir project. Lots of legends describe this, one way or the
other, but from the few bits out of which I could make sense yet, due to
both the very old times it happened and the underlying stake of knowing
who did what and who controls what, the corresponding data eventually
reached us in a very scrambled condition.
**** happened because of the influence of some (not yet identified)
external system or group, more advanced on both technological and
ethical terms than this planet, but quite less than the Aesir, and who
tried to seize the place for their exclusive, short term profit and
needs. The isolationnist stance is rather well described as a series of
variations along lines like "I'm the only ruler!", "You are but my
slaves" and corresponds to a ruthless tyrant which I successively called
Cronos, Ré (Aton), Moloch/El... or, well, the infamous Loki for
Asatruars. Basically, this Vanir has used brute force and any dirty
trick he could think of in order to be like the visible ruler of a
banana republic, and he has been there in order to serve the agenda of
the external troublemaker, as well as to prevent the Aesir's plan for
the Earth to succeed.
That will be all for now. More to come soon.
>> I reckon I could profitably spend countless hours in learning about
what
>> is known from the links between all these ancient cultures, but for
now,
>> knowing that these links were proved to quite some extent is already a
>> true source of satisfaction.
>
> Right. I've visited a number of stone age sites in Ireland, Scotland,
> Wales, England, Ireland, Norway, Sweden and New Zealand. The
> commonality of humanity is fascinating.
True, and so much worth interest.
> For instance the words for mind in modern Icelandic is almost
> identical for the Sanskrit word for mind 5000 years ago in the Indus
> Valley.
:-)
> Do you see that my name becomes more intelligible now?
>
> I want to look back to stone age understandings foisted on our
> ancestors by their conditions.
>
> Neolithic
Well, there's synchronicity here. Not starting an insider's joke about a
Neo and a stone, but...
One of my buddies recently published (only in French, as unfortunately,
her English is not good enough) an account of her remembering of having
experienced life here on Earth as a dinosaur - a weird incarnation. In
fact, in another, similar work soon afterwards, she remembered having
been, even before that stage, a (living) pink granite rock, apparently
softer than what they are known to be now.
It would mean that our present day stones are more or less like
skelettons who once were surrounded by a body of flesh, and that the
(sane) people talking with stones could be in fact entering in contact
with either the spirit that once inhabited this stone, or the ghost
imprint of this spirit.
--
Bob Thomson
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