On Tue, 6 May 2008 07:56:41 -0700, nospam@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(Ralph) wrote:
>Martin <idontwantno@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 4 May 2008 10:04:49 -0700, nospam@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(Ralph) wrote:
>>
>> >It's not a Corp (cor****ation?), it's an educational foundation and it
>> >looks like the challenge is still on:
>>
>> First of all, if you're responding to Mabus, you should know he's a
>> person with some serious psychological problems.
>>
>> >http://www.randi.org/joom/challenge-info.html
>> >
>> >And it's not even his money. It is stuck there forever until someone
>> >wins the challenge. Randi's foundation does get the interest on the
>> >money, however.
>>
>> Yes, Randi can not touch the money. Only the winner of the challenge
>> can. Quite fair I'd say.
>>
>> >Randi does tend to set up his tests so it's possible for Randi to
cheat
>> >and force the subject to fail. In that homeopathy test about the
"memory
>> >of water" on BBC, Randi and his assisstant
>>
>> His 'assistant' was Sir John Maddox, the editor of Nature, and Randi
>> was assisting him, at Maddox's request. Do try to get the basic facts
>> right will you.
>
>Looks like Nature magazine is mainstream which is actually hostile to
>alternative medicine.
1) the article was not about alternative medicine, it was about an
effect of an extreme dilution on human basofils
2) Nature is sooo hostile that it published the article without the
usual peer review. How about that.
> I'm sure Nature has a lot of clients buying full
>page ads in their magazine who would not be pleased seeing Benveniste's
>article sup****ting "memory of water" published in the same magazine.
>Maddox would lose money publi****ng an article sup****ting it. He is not
>an unbiased judge and Benveniste is an idiot if he thinks he would be.
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nature_(journal)
>
>And James Randi is a slight of hand expert and a magician. He could have
>switched things right in front of Maddox.
Which, again, nobody who was there accused Randi of doing, not even
after they failed miserably. How come you think you now more and
better than the people who were actually there and have every reason
to distrust Randi?
>> And the reason John Maddox did this was because the
>> main problem with Benveniste was that the tests were totally
>> unblinded. They saw Miss Davenas, Benveniste's assistant, do a recount
>> of the basofils when she discovered that she had the 'wrong' result,
>> she was counting a control slide when she thought it was a treated
>> slide. She should never have known that. And surprise, the effect
>> disappeared after Maddox (yes, Maddox, not Randi) blinded the test.
>
>Ha, ha. Here's a magic trick by Randi who has a re****ter there to make
>sure he doesn't cheat.
>
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1qLGi62BIk
>
>Notice the re****ter isn't even watching him!! This is how Randi keeps
>himself honest. But this is a real trick done by quite a few magicians
>called the "invisible deck". It looks simple and slow, but i've heard
>it's actually pretty difficult to do.
You've heard wrong.
>Here it is by someone else without cuts and the selected card is
>randomly chosen from another deck. If Randi can do this trick, he
>shouldn't be anywhere near the samples.
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2brZsGMoQ4U
So because Randi can do trick that costs like $ 5.- on Ebay, he can do
miracles as well?
>Here Randi debunks a psychic detective, but Randi expects the audience
>to just take his word for what the items were used for. Randi makes no
>effort to veryify that he is honest. I've watched probably every single
>youtube video on Randi and that issue never even comes up with him.
>
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-sQHYkyq7Hs
>
>It would have been better if he had cards under each one stating what
>they were, but we would still be taking the word of Randi and those who
>provided the items what they were.
>
>> > were allowed to take all the
>> >samples behind closed doors. He could have switched them around every
>> >which way. I guess he just expects all of us think we'd trust him to
be
>> >perfectly willing to hand over that money.
>>
>> Benveniste's people were there, they had champagne and lobster ready
>> because they were so sure the results were going to be good, and even
>> they did not accuse the team from Nature of this. And they were there.
>> Their academic career was over after that failure. The fact that they
>> didn't accuse Randi of this says a lot I think.
>
>They would have had to completely believe in the "memory of water" to
>even accept the challenge in the first place.
What challenge? There was no challenge? You really have no clue what
actually happened there did you? Let me fill you in: Nature published
the article with the caveat that a team from Nature could come to
Benveniste's lab and check out the whole testprocedure. John Maddox
asked Randi to come because he thought there might be some form of
trickery going on and Randi would be best equipped to spot that. It
had nothing to do with any challenge whatsoever.
> Then they would have to completely trust and believe Randi to accept the
results.
Randi did not have to accept anything. There was no challenge going
on.
> I think they just don't know very much about the nature of people or how
to keep
>people honest.
Benveniste clearly did not. Even after it was crystal clear he got
hoodwinked by Miss Davenas and his assistant Jamal, he refused to
believe this and even tried to publish a paper called 'The Jamal
Effect', because nobody but Davenas and Jamal could get positive
results.
>And they could have labeled the samples in front of Benveniste without
>him being able to see the numbers or figure out which were which. They
>could have used a barcoding system with labels printed out in duplicat
>on a computer with real long random numbers making it virtually
>impossible to cheat even if he saw the numbers. And they shouldn't keep
>the records of both sample groups on the same paper!! Or scan both
>groups into the same computer. In fact, put the second label sets on
>different colored paper and seal them clear contact paper or packing
>tape. Then lock them in a box with two locks, one of which Benveniste
>provides and he only keeps the key. After the testing is done, only then
>scan one set into a computer, then scan the one tested sample set into
>the computer and see how many matches they get. I've seen this bar
>coding system used in labs to track samples on do***entaries. It's
>nothing new.
>
>It's really something how these "debunkers" make every effort to keep
>the subject honest, but make no effort to verify they are honest too. I
>played around with some friends attempting psychic powers a few times.
>In a "psychic test" it's usually the judge who cheats. You need to keep
>both sides honest.
That's why Randi sets up tests that require no judging. So there can
be no cheating and no discussion.
>This "memory of water" test was repeated again with other sceptics. They
>had like a 4 level encoding.
'level 4 encoding'? What the hell is that? Now you're just making
stuff up.
> That was the samples were numbered by one
>person, then his record was encrypted by someone else, then given to
>someone else who re-encrypted it, and so forth. The numbers were
>completely scrambled to prevent anyone cheating to falsely make the
>samples pass the test, but it was absurdly easy for any of these judges
>to force them to lose. If it later turned out that "memory of water" is
>real, there was no way to figure out which one cheated. Why the hell
>would Benveniste accept this kind of system.
Who told you he did?
>I really have no idea whether "memory of water" is real, I'd guess it's
>probably crap, but I can say without a doubt that those testing him were
>not being fair.
'without a doubt' - yep, your mind is closed and no evidence will
change your opinion. Typical.
>> >David Mabus2 <davidmabus69@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> wrote:
>> >
>> >> http://thomashawk.com/hello/209/1017/1024/Johnny%20Cash%20Finger.jpg
>> >>
>> >> And PZ Myers, you self-deluded insignificant NUTCASE...
>> >>
>> >> the ORIGINAL *KING OF TERROR* VIDEO.....
>> >>
>> >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGsOqPDkIZY
>> >>
>> >> the *MODEL* of mental health:
>> >>
>> >> http://youtube.com/watch?v=zBEbfiaZTfc
>> >>
>> >> "Look at the ANGLE OF THE KEY....see that, see that...."
>> >>
>> >> what an idiot this Randi is.....a REAL CRITICAL THINKER....
>> >>
>> >> Visit:
>> >>
>> >> http://www.centerforinquiry.net/forums/viewthread/3283/P0/
>> >>
>> >> to see how we stopped the MILLION DOLLAR PARANORMAL challenge.....
>> >> watch carefully the consequences of Randi's *idea*.....
>> >>
>> >> For over 40 years James Randi Zwigert (is this even a REAL NAME?)
has
>> >> had total control over who and how the testing was conducted, yet
>> >> despite all this he has terminated the challenge.
>> >>
>> >> The ONLY REASON why the challenge was stopped is because he lost and
>> >> refused to pay.
>> >> Apparently, Randi likes to break the rules when it serves him:
>> >>
>> >> "14. This prize will continue to be offered until it is awarded.
Upon
>> >> the death of James Randi, the administration of the prize will pass
>> >> into other hands, and it is intended that it continue in force. "
>> >>
>> >> Great force.....it's over......
>> >>
>> >> where is my MILLION DOLLARS, you LITTLE *NO-NAME* FRAUD
>> >>
>> >> PS: Almost Forgot: Love the IRONY of the *BULL***** sign over
Randi's
>> >> ugly head....
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