Re: Should I stay or should I go?

John Palmer wrote:
> On Tue, 13 May 2008 19:34:04 -0700, Serene <serene@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> wrote:
> 
>> John Palmer wrote:
>>> On Tue, 13 May 2008 14:48:05 -0700, Serene <serene@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>>> wrote:
>>>> (By the way, John, "poor [whoever] got his feelings hurt" is exactly 
>>>> the kind of thing you would go ballistic about.  You claim that 
>>>> mocking other people's hurt feelings is abhorrent to you.)
>>> I did not for an instant think that Aahz's feelings had truly been
>>> hurt. I was responding as I did because I felt he was acting like a
>>> child throwing a tantrum because the world wasn't the way he wanted it
>>> to be.
>>>
>>> You're right; if I thought his feelings were truly hurt, I would not
>>> have said such a thing. 
>>>
>>> Do you think they were? 
>> I don't think it matters. I think you've made a strong case here in 
>> the past for not mocking the feelings of others. When you and I had 
>> our last protracted run-in, you told me that your feelings were 
>> deeply hurt, and I had *literally no idea* you were hurting, so I 
>> think it's reasonable to avoid presuming to know what someone else 
>> is feeling.
> 
> Do you want to talk about our last run-in in e-mail? Or here? 

Neither. (Not, "No, let's not talk about this," but "No, I don't 
need to talk about it, and wasn't requesting that we do so.")

> I'll start by admitting that I was wrong to let myself be hurt badly
> enough that it would end up spla****ng on people I cared about.

Okay, so you want to talk about it here. That's fine.

Do you really think that?  I thought you believed that hurt feelings 
were not the hurt person's fault? (I think that, for what it's 
worth, and am not baiting you; it's just my understanding of what I 
thought you believed/thought.)

 > I
> didn't handle myself properly. But I also didn't see another way to
> handle things; I felt trapped. I felt I had to keep responding, but
> each time I did, I felt that things got worse, and I just didn't see
> any way to break the chain.  

Personally, given my preference, I would have preferred to have 
heard about your hurt feelings long before they were to the point 
where you were considering either leaving the group or writing me 
off. As it was, our interaction made me unwilling to pursue a close 
friend****p with you, and as we share a favorite person, that seemed 
a shame to me.

> (Well, I saw one way. I could have chosen to view you as a nasty,
> hurtful person around whom I had to keep up a constant guard. But I
> wasn't willing to do that. I wanted us to remain friends.)
> 
> Anyway, I'm not making excuses... I'm explaining the specific mistake
> that I made that was the biggest proximate cause to what (I think) was
> the problem. I'm still not sure I've found a better way to handle it.

To be honest, I don't recall what was the original disagreement.  I 
just recall being blindsided by the accusation that I was 
intentionally hurting someone, when I wasn't even aware the person 
*was* hurting, much less that I was supposedly doing it on purpose.

> 
>> Also, I think that it's reasonable to avoid the 
>> rhetorical devices you say you hate, even when you are using them 
>> against someone you think will not be harmed by them.
> 
> That's a fair criticism. It's not the rhetorical device of mocking
> non-hurt feelings that bothers me, it's the actual mocking of
> feelings. But, as I said, it's a fair criticism.

But how do you know his feelings weren't hurt? <tone:mocking> Is 
this another time when you can see things the rest of us are just 
blind to?</tone>

Serene