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Alternative > Polamory > First posting.....
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First posting...

by philip_bordley@[EMAIL PROTECTED] May 14, 2008 at 02:41 AM

I don=92t know what I=92m really looking for in this, my first posting to
this group.

Basically I=92m a forty year old male (UK based) and after eighteen
years of being faithful to my wife in thought (most of the time) and
deed (all of the time), have ended up with a situation which brings me
here.

Over the last couple of years=92 a very deep friend****p had built up
between my wife, myself and a second lady, =93K=94, a divorcee.  It=92s
got
to be a bit of a joke with people who know us that we are always
together, we sleep at her house, she sleeps at ours and if we=92re out
doing stuff we are doing all together unless the one absent has a damn
good excuse (the absent one can be any of the three of us).  Anyway my
feelings had been growing for =93K=94 first friend****p, then love and then
in love, but I wasn=92t saying or doing anything about it.  I=92m nice guy
(which means that in my teens and twenties I was crapped on a lot, but
with age this seems to become an asset), I love and am in love with my
wife I was just going to bottle it up and carry on.

Anyway a couple of months ago =93K=94 had been going out on a date...when
we next saw her (two days later) she was well and truly messed up.
Her date had wanted her for one thing alone ***...she=92d gone along
with it and he hadn=92t even got the decency to phone her or text her
the next day.  I must admit I had my reservations about this man, but
kept my mouth shut in case it was my own irrational jealousy talking,
rather than my brain.  Talking to her later on, when she was in tears,
she blurted out that the only reason she slept with him was to get me
out of her mind.  She wasn=92t willing to cause me or my wife pain,
because she loves us too much, but besides loving us both she was =91in
love with me=92 and she=92d have to stop being with the two of us because
she couldn=92t bear to hurt either of us...

I=92m afraid this sort of scrambled the old noggin with me.  I walked
around in a daze for a week or two; we tried to avoid each other, but
eventually ended up talking about our feelings.  They are deep and
very real feelings...oh yes there is a healthy serving of lust mixed
in there, but it isn=92t just lust.  So I talked to my wife about my
feelings for her and =93K=94 and seeing she=92s so much more sensible than
me she asked what the problem was.  My wife=92s requests are only two
people in a bed, we take things slow and steady (a courting period)
and we don=92t advertise the fact that we are a triad amongst some of
our less open minded acquaintances.

I talked with =93K=94 about this (on a purely hypothetical basis, not
mentioning I=92d been talking to my wife) and the only stumbling points
that she found were that my wife would never agree to anything like
that, it=92d be damn difficult and people just do that for religion or
to get more *** (she's not a science fiction freak like me or a victim
of a science fiction freak like my wife).  Anyway tonight my wife and
I are proposing a courting period to =93K=94, to see how things go...I=92m
not talking about grabbing =93K=94 by the hand and running off to
bed...but to allow us to show our feelings for each other (and feel
them) without guilt.  To be honest the thing that=92s giving me the
greatest buzz at the moment is the ability to hold both of them tight
and kiss them and be able to enjoy it without guilt.  We=92re both
pretty sure =93K=94 will accept...

Things are looking damn good, kids aren=92t really an issue...my own two
lads one is now grown up, the other is almost (and both are open
minded kids).  K=92s kids 2 are grown up, one is almost grown up and the
fourth is only 5 years old...again, all pretty open minded kids who we
all get on together.  My parents and my inlaws will probably
disapprove (they do of everything I do), but it=92s got bugger all to do
with them as I say things are looking damn good...

So why the hell am I so scared of hurting the two women I care about
most in this world?  Why is this situation terrifying me more than the
first time I asked my wife out?  I=92m forty years old...I shouldn=92t
feel like a mixed up kid should I?

Phil
 




 2942 Posts in Topic:
First posting...
philip_bordley@[EMAIL PRO  2008-05-14 02:41:10 
Re: First posting...
Aqua <aqua@[EMAIL PROT  2008-05-14 22:24:23 
Re: First posting...
Pat Kight <kightp@[EMA  2008-05-14 06:38:56 
Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Aqua <aqua@[EMAIL PROT  2008-05-15 08:53:37 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
piglet@[EMAIL PROTECTED]   2008-05-14 23:16:26 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Orlando Enrique Fiol <  2008-05-15 12:09:07 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
piglet@[EMAIL PROTECTED]   2008-05-15 14:54:29 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Orlando Enrique Fiol <  2008-05-15 17:38:49 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
"Dr. Brat" <  2008-05-15 14:45:21 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Kai Jones <snippy@[EMA  2008-05-15 11:57:17 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
piglet@[EMAIL PROTECTED]   2008-05-15 22:00:22 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Kai Jones <snippy@[EMA  2008-05-15 15:23:54 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
"ElissaAnn" <  2008-05-16 09:19:42 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Kai Jones <snippy@[EMA  2008-05-16 07:54:26 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
stef@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (  2008-05-16 14:42:40 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
"ElissaAnn" <  2008-05-16 10:54:36 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Teal <rhubarb@[EMAIL P  2008-05-17 08:28:00 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
"ElissaAnn" <  2008-05-16 19:21:54 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Aqua <aqua@[EMAIL PROT  2008-05-17 09:44:30 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
bright uruloki <bright  2008-05-17 11:03:24 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Vicki Rosenzweig <vr@[  2008-05-17 11:38:14 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Orlando Enrique Fiol <  2008-05-17 16:37:14 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Ann Burlingham <annb@[  2008-05-17 16:15:00 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Orlando Enrique Fiol <  2008-05-17 23:09:05 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
bright uruloki <bright  2008-05-19 12:52:25 
Drama (was Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Serene <serene@[EMAIL   2008-05-16 19:50:10 
Re: Drama
darkhawk@[EMAIL PROTECTED  2008-05-16 23:16:34 
Re: Drama
Serene <serene@[EMAIL   2008-05-17 08:31:51 
Re: Drama (was Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First postin
sio <sio-altpoly@[EMAI  2008-05-17 09:12:12 
Re: Drama (was Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First postin
Serene <serene@[EMAIL   2008-05-17 08:32:32 
Re: Drama (was Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First postin
sio <sio-altpoly@[EMAI  2008-05-17 19:48:56 
Re: Drama (was Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First postin
Vicki Rosenzweig <vr@[  2008-05-17 11:34:06 
Re: Drama (was Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First postin
betsy <betsy@[EMAIL PR  2008-05-17 11:43:00 
Re: Drama (was Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First postin
Serene <serene@[EMAIL   2008-05-17 09:54:23 
Re: Drama (was Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First postin
aahz@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (  2008-05-17 10:01:24 
Re: Drama (was Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First postin
stef@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (  2008-05-17 18:24:10 
Re: Drama (was Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First postin
lisa cohen <lcohen@[EM  2008-05-17 19:39:38 
Re: Drama (was Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First postin
Ann Burlingham <annb@[  2008-05-17 23:02:15 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
piglet@[EMAIL PROTECTED]   2008-05-17 13:41:45 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Orlando Enrique Fiol <  2008-05-17 15:19:15 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
"Dr. Brat" <  2008-05-17 15:23:44 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Serene <serene@[EMAIL   2008-05-17 13:13:38 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Orlando Enrique Fiol <  2008-05-17 23:08:28 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Orlando Enrique Fiol <  2008-05-17 20:34:57 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
"Dr. Brat" <  2008-05-17 20:40:55 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Orlando Enrique Fiol <  2008-05-18 15:36:45 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
ChickPea <E-0C001302-3  2008-05-19 23:36:25 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Aqua <aqua@[EMAIL PROT  2008-05-24 08:40:18 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Orlando Enrique Fiol <  2008-05-24 05:19:17 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Teal <rhubarb@[EMAIL P  2008-05-24 19:07:58 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Steve Heller <steve@[E  2008-05-24 08:09:26 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Orlando Enrique Fiol <  2008-05-24 17:53:22 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
"Guy W. Thomas"  2008-05-24 13:39:33 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Pat Kight <kightp@[EMA  2008-05-24 13:53:04 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
darkhawk@[EMAIL PROTECTED  2008-05-24 18:26:00 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Pat Kight <kightp@[EMA  2008-05-24 21:26:14 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Teal <rhubarb@[EMAIL P  2008-05-25 08:44:31 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Ann Burlingham <annb@[  2008-05-24 22:29:20 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Ann Burlingham <annb@[  2008-05-24 22:27:45 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Ann Burlingham <annb@[  2008-05-17 23:08:03 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Orlando Enrique Fiol <  2008-05-18 15:42:37 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Kai Jones <snippy@[EMA  2008-05-16 08:07:16 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
stef@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (  2008-05-16 15:18:31 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Kai Jones <snippy@[EMA  2008-05-19 21:08:24 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
stef@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (  2008-05-20 19:46:38 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Vicki Rosenzweig <vr@[  2008-05-20 22:46:48 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
aahz@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (  2008-05-20 20:05:17 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Vicki Rosenzweig <vr@[  2008-05-21 19:08:06 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
aahz@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (  2008-05-21 16:13:28 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
spope33@[EMAIL PROTECTED]  2008-05-23 04:21:12 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Lane <absolutelane@[EM  2008-05-24 09:59:58 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Philippa Cowderoy <fli  2008-05-25 21:30:53 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Vicki Rosenzweig <vr@[  2008-05-28 21:10:52 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
spope33@[EMAIL PROTECTED]  2008-05-29 01:28:51 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
stef@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (  2008-05-21 03:25:00 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
"Ruth Lawrence"  2008-05-21 15:44:39 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Lisa Geoffrion <ljgeof  2008-05-22 05:29:22 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
"Ruth Lawrence"  2008-05-23 02:19:03 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Vicki Rosenzweig <vr@[  2008-05-21 19:09:55 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
piglet@[EMAIL PROTECTED]   2008-05-16 16:34:20 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Kai Jones <snippy@[EMA  2008-05-17 09:46:32 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
stef@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (  2008-05-17 18:31:23 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Serene <serene@[EMAIL   2008-05-17 13:14:23 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Orlando Enrique Fiol <  2008-05-17 23:08:40 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
betsy <betsy@[EMAIL PR  2008-05-18 01:17:32 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Ann Burlingham <annb@[  2008-05-18 03:37:14 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
darkhawk@[EMAIL PROTECTED  2008-05-17 16:25:25 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Phoenix <druppert@[EMA  2008-05-16 10:07:14 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
stef@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (  2008-05-16 17:12:28 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
"ElissaAnn" <  2008-05-16 13:20:30 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
"Dr. Brat" <  2008-05-16 15:05:30 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
"songbird" <  2008-05-18 21:44:54 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
aahz@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (  2008-05-16 10:29:49 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Phoenix <druppert@[EMA  2008-05-16 14:23:54 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
aahz@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (  2008-05-16 14:26:31 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Pat Kight <kightp@[EMA  2008-05-16 15:40:37 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
sio <sio-altpoly@[EMAI  2008-05-17 09:13:10 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Pat Kight <kightp@[EMA  2008-05-16 15:33:57 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
"Ruth Lawrence"  2008-05-18 08:34:12 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Vicki Rosenzweig <vr@[  2008-05-17 09:20:05 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
aahz@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (  2008-05-15 20:04:12 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Kai Jones <snippy@[EMA  2008-05-15 21:06:05 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
lisa cohen <lcohen@[EM  2008-05-17 14:12:05 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Kai Jones <snippy@[EMA  2008-05-17 20:40:40 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Orlando Enrique Fiol <  2008-05-15 20:26:46 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
"Dr. Brat" <  2008-05-15 17:32:15 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Orlando Enrique Fiol <  2008-05-16 01:34:47 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
"Dr. Brat" <  2008-05-15 23:14:39 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Orlando Enrique Fiol <  2008-05-16 14:06:02 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Miche <micheinnz@[EMAI  2008-05-17 09:21:50 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Serene <serene@[EMAIL   2008-05-16 15:38:43 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Orlando Enrique Fiol <  2008-05-17 01:15:00 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Vicki Rosenzweig <vr@[  2008-05-17 09:27:20 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Orlando Enrique Fiol <  2008-05-17 15:06:57 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Ann Burlingham <annb@[  2008-05-18 03:09:33 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Orlando Enrique Fiol <  2008-05-18 16:07:17 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Ann Burlingham <annb@[  2008-05-15 23:27:39 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Ann Burlingham <annb@[  2008-05-15 23:04:11 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
"ElissaAnn" <  2008-05-16 09:22:05 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
"Guy W. Thomas"  2008-05-16 12:26:22 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
betsy <betsy@[EMAIL PR  2008-05-17 01:05:39 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Serene <serene@[EMAIL   2008-05-16 23:21:47 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
betsy <betsy@[EMAIL PR  2008-05-17 11:44:44 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
"Guy W. Thomas"  2008-05-17 13:38:04 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Aqua <aqua@[EMAIL PROT  2008-05-16 06:55:19 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
aahz@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (  2008-05-15 15:28:04 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Aqua <aqua@[EMAIL PROT  2008-05-16 09:14:01 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Orlando Enrique Fiol <  2008-05-15 22:50:24 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
piglet@[EMAIL PROTECTED]   2008-05-16 16:38:37 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Orlando Enrique Fiol <  2008-05-16 18:10:29 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Ann Burlingham <annb@[  2008-05-18 00:31:21 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
umar <866013149b@[EMAI  2008-05-15 20:31:20 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Miche <micheinnz@[EMAI  2008-05-15 11:29:47 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
aahz@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (  2008-05-14 16:40:15 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Pat Kight <kightp@[EMA  2008-05-14 18:51:25 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Aqua <aqua@[EMAIL PROT  2008-05-15 15:49:45 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
stef@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (  2008-05-15 05:31:56 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
bright uruloki <bright  2008-05-15 17:10:33 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Orlando Enrique Fiol <  2008-05-15 12:12:39 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
bright uruloki <bright  2008-05-16 00:24:28 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
ChickPea <E-0C001302-3  2008-05-15 15:54:19 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
aahz@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (  2008-05-17 06:10:33 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
EveningStarTwo@[EMAIL PRO  2008-05-19 04:01:10 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
aahz@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (  2008-05-19 07:40:42 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
piglet@[EMAIL PROTECTED]   2008-05-15 14:56:12 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Orlando Enrique Fiol <  2008-05-15 17:38:49 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Aqua <aqua@[EMAIL PROT  2008-05-16 07:03:59 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Serene <serene@[EMAIL   2008-05-15 14:18:07 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Rob Wynne <doc@[EMAIL   2008-05-15 21:30:10 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Aqua <aqua@[EMAIL PROT  2008-05-16 09:18:15 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Ann Burlingham <annb@[  2008-05-15 23:09:43 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
"Dr. Brat" <  2008-05-15 17:28:18 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
aahz@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (  2008-05-15 15:29:14 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
"Dr. Brat" <  2008-05-15 20:06:18 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
aahz@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (  2008-05-15 17:23:42 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
"Dr. Brat" <  2008-05-15 20:36:02 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Orlando Enrique Fiol <  2008-05-16 01:38:10 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
"Dr. Brat" <  2008-05-15 23:16:08 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Orlando Enrique Fiol <  2008-05-16 14:07:18 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
"Dr. Brat" <  2008-05-16 14:44:58 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Serene <serene@[EMAIL   2008-05-16 11:51:42 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Orlando Enrique Fiol <  2008-05-16 20:52:27 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
betsy <betsy@[EMAIL PR  2008-05-17 01:19:31 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
aahz@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (  2008-05-17 06:10:58 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Doug Wickstrom <nimshu  2008-05-17 15:02:06 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
aahz@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (  2008-05-17 13:08:54 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Serene <serene@[EMAIL   2008-05-17 08:32:40 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Aqua <aqua@[EMAIL PROT  2008-05-17 09:51:37 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Phoenix <druppert@[EMA  2008-05-15 21:33:02 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Miche <micheinnz@[EMAI  2008-05-16 10:49:25 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Aqua <aqua@[EMAIL PROT  2008-05-16 09:20:05 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
"Ruth Lawrence"  2008-05-16 10:47:12 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Orlando Enrique Fiol <  2008-05-15 22:51:37 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Ann Burlingham <annb@[  2008-05-15 23:10:37 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Pat Kight <kightp@[EMA  2008-05-15 22:59:32 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Orlando Enrique Fiol <  2008-05-16 13:45:12 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
"ElissaAnn" <  2008-05-16 09:59:42 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Rob Wynne <doc@[EMAIL   2008-05-16 14:15:03 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
"ElissaAnn" <  2008-05-16 10:47:58 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Rob Wynne <doc@[EMAIL   2008-05-16 14:57:32 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
piglet@[EMAIL PROTECTED]   2008-05-16 16:44:31 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Rob Wynne <doc@[EMAIL   2008-05-16 18:13:53 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
piglet@[EMAIL PROTECTED]   2008-05-17 13:48:46 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Orlando Enrique Fiol <  2008-05-16 19:12:59 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Ann Burlingham <annb@[  2008-05-18 03:11:48 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Miche <micheinnz@[EMAI  2008-05-18 20:27:51 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Orlando Enrique Fiol <  2008-05-18 16:09:32 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Ann Burlingham <annb@[  2008-05-18 19:09:38 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Ann Burlingham <annb@[  2008-05-18 12:00:05 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Serene <serene@[EMAIL   2008-05-18 12:55:10 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
betsy <betsy@[EMAIL PR  2008-05-18 12:37:05 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Orlando Enrique Fiol <  2008-05-19 03:09:36 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Miche <micheinnz@[EMAI  2008-05-19 19:54:46 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
umar <866013149b@[EMAI  2008-05-19 22:20:44 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Orlando Enrique Fiol <  2008-05-18 16:08:39 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Ann Burlingham <annb@[  2008-05-18 19:08:20 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
"Dr. Brat" <  2008-05-19 19:25:05 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Orlando Enrique Fiol <  2008-05-20 00:43:21 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
"Dr. Brat" <  2008-05-19 21:39:47 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Orlando Enrique Fiol <  2008-05-20 13:26:45 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
piglet@[EMAIL PROTECTED]   2008-05-20 13:41:42 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Miche <micheinnz@[EMAI  2008-05-21 07:36:08 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
"Dr. Brat" <  2008-05-20 16:42:15 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
piglet@[EMAIL PROTECTED]   2008-05-20 22:48:01 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
umar <866013149b@[EMAI  2008-05-20 21:29:19 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Miche <micheinnz@[EMAI  2008-05-21 20:06:51 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
umar <866013149b@[EMAI  2008-05-21 18:53:24 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Doug Wickstrom <nimshu  2008-05-24 22:24:43 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Ann Burlingham <annb@[  2008-05-18 03:12:27 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Orlando Enrique Fiol <  2008-05-18 16:10:21 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Miche <micheinnz@[EMAI  2008-05-17 09:27:40 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Ann Burlingham <annb@[  2008-05-18 03:10:58 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Ann Burlingham <annb@[  2008-05-16 10:24:36 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
"ElissaAnn" <  2008-05-16 10:50:17 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Orlando Enrique Fiol <  2008-05-16 17:08:30 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Ann Burlingham <annb@[  2008-05-17 16:25:52 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Ann Burlingham <annb@[  2008-05-17 16:25:03 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Serene <serene@[EMAIL   2008-05-17 14:05:13 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Ann Burlingham <annb@[  2008-05-17 23:22:17 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Orlando Enrique Fiol <  2008-05-16 16:09:55 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
"Dr. Brat" <  2008-05-16 14:59:18 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Kai Jones <snippy@[EMA  2008-05-16 12:01:21 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Serene <serene@[EMAIL   2008-05-16 12:02:51 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Orlando Enrique Fiol <  2008-05-16 20:57:41 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
"Guy W. Thomas"  2008-05-16 18:03:30 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Serene <serene@[EMAIL   2008-05-16 19:58:26 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
"Guy W. Thomas"  2008-05-16 21:54:54 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Serene <serene@[EMAIL   2008-05-16 22:38:36 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Orlando Enrique Fiol <  2008-05-17 11:53:30 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
"ElissaAnn" <  2008-05-17 08:08:33 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
"Dr. Brat" <  2008-05-17 08:36:38 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Orlando Enrique Fiol <  2008-05-17 14:00:05 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
"Dr. Brat" <  2008-05-17 15:09:34 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Serene <serene@[EMAIL   2008-05-17 13:15:14 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Orlando Enrique Fiol <  2008-05-17 23:10:14 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
ChickPea <E-0C001302-3  2008-05-19 23:43:09 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Orlando Enrique Fiol <  2008-05-17 20:19:20 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
"Dr. Brat" <  2008-05-17 20:26:43 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Orlando Enrique Fiol <  2008-05-18 14:59:38 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
"Dr. Brat" <  2008-05-19 19:12:34 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Miche <micheinnz@[EMAI  2008-05-18 11:54:28 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Serene <serene@[EMAIL   2008-05-17 18:50:30 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Miche <micheinnz@[EMAI  2008-05-18 16:32:53 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Ann Burlingham <annb@[  2008-05-18 03:18:41 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Miche <micheinnz@[EMAI  2008-05-18 20:27:11 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Serene <serene@[EMAIL   2008-05-18 09:12:29 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Miche <micheinnz@[EMAI  2008-05-19 07:34:49 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Ann Burlingham <annb@[  2008-05-18 19:10:21 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Ann Burlingham <annb@[  2008-05-18 12:01:47 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Miche <micheinnz@[EMAI  2008-05-19 07:34:13 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Serene <serene@[EMAIL   2008-05-18 12:56:56 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Miche <micheinnz@[EMAI  2008-05-19 08:27:39 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
spope33@[EMAIL PROTECTED]  2008-05-18 20:31:40 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Vicki Rosenzweig <vr@[  2008-05-20 22:48:10 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Ann Burlingham <annb@[  2008-05-20 23:15:17 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
spope33@[EMAIL PROTECTED]  2008-05-21 18:48:59 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Pat Kight <kightp@[EMA  2008-05-21 18:26:02 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
spope33@[EMAIL PROTECTED]  2008-05-22 01:30:33 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Pat Kight <kightp@[EMA  2008-05-21 23:04:14 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Serene <serene@[EMAIL   2008-05-18 13:37:25 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Ann Burlingham <annb@[  2008-05-18 19:15:36 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Serene <serene@[EMAIL   2008-05-18 18:33:32 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
piglet@[EMAIL PROTECTED]   2008-05-19 01:42:17 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Miche <micheinnz@[EMAI  2008-05-19 19:58:59 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Ann Burlingham <annb@[  2008-05-18 19:14:04 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Serene <serene@[EMAIL   2008-05-18 18:35:02 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Ann Burlingham <annb@[  2008-05-18 22:07:23 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Serene <serene@[EMAIL   2008-05-18 19:54:38 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Miche <micheinnz@[EMAI  2008-05-19 19:59:56 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Doug Wickstrom <nimshu  2008-05-24 22:23:09 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
lisa cohen <lcohen@[EM  2008-05-18 12:41:05 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
ChickPea <E-0C001302-3  2008-05-19 23:44:34 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Miche <micheinnz@[EMAI  2008-05-20 11:29:09 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
ChickPea <E-0C001302-3  2008-05-20 11:15:18 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Miche <micheinnz@[EMAI  2008-05-21 07:41:09 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Ann Burlingham <annb@[  2008-05-18 03:16:28 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
ChickPea <E-0C001302-3  2008-05-17 09:42:39 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Doug Wickstrom <nimshu  2008-05-17 14:54:55 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Aqua <aqua@[EMAIL PROT  2008-05-17 10:01:20 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Serene <serene@[EMAIL   2008-05-16 20:02:45 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
"Guy W. Thomas"  2008-05-16 21:57:48 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
sio <sio-altpoly@[EMAI  2008-05-17 09:28:24 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Ann Burlingham <annb@[  2008-05-18 03:23:48 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Ann Burlingham <annb@[  2008-05-18 03:22:09 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Serene <serene@[EMAIL   2008-05-18 09:12:43 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
"Guy W. Thomas"  2008-05-18 12:34:32 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Ann Burlingham <annb@[  2008-05-18 19:03:53 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
aahz@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (  2008-05-18 19:02:40 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
"Dr. Brat" <  2008-05-17 08:23:35 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Serene <serene@[EMAIL   2008-05-17 07:35:10 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Ann Burlingham <annb@[  2008-05-18 03:25:04 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Doug Wickstrom <nimshu  2008-05-17 14:56:01 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
"songbird" <  2008-05-17 16:01:53 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Doug Wickstrom <nimshu  2008-05-17 12:39:50 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
aahz@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (  2008-05-16 12:09:33 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Orlando Enrique Fiol <  2008-05-16 20:57:32 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
ChickPea <E-0C001302-3  2008-05-17 09:40:14 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Aqua <aqua@[EMAIL PROT  2008-05-17 09:57:55 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Pat Kight <kightp@[EMA  2008-05-15 18:14:21 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Teal <rhubarb@[EMAIL P  2008-05-16 11:27:12 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Lissa McCollum <lissag  2008-05-15 23:52:35 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Orlando Enrique Fiol <  2008-05-16 14:16:19 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
"Dr. Brat" <  2008-05-16 14:46:57 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Orlando Enrique Fiol <  2008-05-16 20:51:54 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
"Guy W. Thomas"  2008-05-16 18:00:36 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
ChickPea <E-0C001302-3  2008-05-17 09:33:14 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Aqua <aqua@[EMAIL PROT  2008-05-17 10:06:10 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Orlando Enrique Fiol <  2008-05-17 11:22:34 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
"ElissaAnn" <  2008-05-17 08:03:18 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Orlando Enrique Fiol <  2008-05-17 13:15:01 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Ann Burlingham <annb@[  2008-05-18 00:02:22 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Orlando Enrique Fiol <  2008-05-18 16:06:13 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Orlando Enrique Fiol <  2008-05-17 13:25:49 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Ann Burlingham <annb@[  2008-05-18 00:08:39 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Orlando Enrique Fiol <  2008-05-18 15:48:29 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Ann Burlingham <annb@[  2008-05-18 21:27:16 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Orlando Enrique Fiol <  2008-05-19 03:27:47 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
"Dr. Brat" <  2008-05-19 19:22:30 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Orlando Enrique Fiol <  2008-05-20 00:41:36 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
"Dr. Brat" <  2008-05-19 21:39:02 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Orlando Enrique Fiol <  2008-05-20 03:00:43 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Doug Wickstrom <nimshu  2008-05-24 22:24:50 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Miche <micheinnz@[EMAI  2008-05-25 16:47:45 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Orlando Enrique Fiol <  2008-05-17 11:24:05 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
"Dr. Brat" <  2008-05-17 08:30:53 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Orlando Enrique Fiol <  2008-05-17 13:38:49 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Phoenix <druppert@[EMA  2008-05-17 11:02:47 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Orlando Enrique Fiol <  2008-05-17 20:01:54 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
"Dr. Brat" <  2008-05-17 20:15:38 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Orlando Enrique Fiol <  2008-05-18 14:59:38 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Ann Burlingham <annb@[  2008-05-18 21:29:08 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Orlando Enrique Fiol <  2008-05-19 03:27:55 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Ann Burlingham <annb@[  2008-05-19 00:34:09 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Serene <serene@[EMAIL   2008-05-18 21:40:24 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
umar <866013149b@[EMAI  2008-05-19 22:25:53 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
ChickPea <E-0C001302-3  2008-05-20 00:26:00 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Serene <serene@[EMAIL   2008-05-19 16:37:37 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Ann Burlingham <annb@[  2008-05-19 20:08:42 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Rob Wynne <doc@[EMAIL   2008-05-20 14:29:53 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
lisa cohen <lcohen@[EM  2008-05-20 15:53:22 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
darkhawk@[EMAIL PROTECTED  2008-05-19 20:52:35 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
stef@[EMAIL PROTECTED] (  2008-05-20 23:35:55 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Lissa McCollum <lissag  2008-05-19 21:44:46 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
bright uruloki <bright  2008-05-21 11:42:03 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
"Dr. Brat" <  2008-05-19 19:14:09 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Orlando Enrique Fiol <  2008-05-18 15:34:01 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Ann Burlingham <annb@[  2008-05-18 12:02:51 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Orlando Enrique Fiol <  2008-05-18 19:05:14 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Ann Burlingham <annb@[  2008-05-18 19:16:20 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Orlando Enrique Fiol <  2008-05-19 03:14:36 
Re: Pesky Gender, another rant [was: First posting...
Ann Burlingham <annb@[  2008-05-18 23:25:37