Re: Should I stay or should I go?

John Palmer wrote:
> On Tue, 13 May 2008 20:57:46 -0700, Serene <serene@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> wrote:
> 
>> John Palmer wrote:
>>> On Tue, 13 May 2008 19:34:04 -0700, Serene <serene@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> John Palmer wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, 13 May 2008 14:48:05 -0700, Serene <serene@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> (By the way, John, "poor [whoever] got his feelings hurt" is
exactly 
>>>>>> the kind of thing you would go ballistic about.  You claim that 
>>>>>> mocking other people's hurt feelings is abhorrent to you.)
>>>>> I did not for an instant think that Aahz's feelings had truly been
>>>>> hurt. I was responding as I did because I felt he was acting like a
>>>>> child throwing a tantrum because the world wasn't the way he wanted
it
>>>>> to be.
>>>>>
>>>>> You're right; if I thought his feelings were truly hurt, I would not
>>>>> have said such a thing. 
>>>>>
>>>>> Do you think they were? 
>>>> I don't think it matters. I think you've made a strong case here in 
>>>> the past for not mocking the feelings of others. When you and I had 
>>>> our last protracted run-in, you told me that your feelings were 
>>>> deeply hurt, and I had *literally no idea* you were hurting, so I 
>>>> think it's reasonable to avoid presuming to know what someone else 
>>>> is feeling.
>>> Do you want to talk about our last run-in in e-mail? Or here? 
>> Neither. (Not, "No, let's not talk about this," but "No, I don't 
>> need to talk about it, and wasn't requesting that we do so.")
>>
>>> I'll start by admitting that I was wrong to let myself be hurt badly
>>> enough that it would end up spla****ng on people I cared about.
>> Okay, so you want to talk about it here. That's fine.
> 
> No. I was making an offer. I wanted to establish that I was not on the
> attack before any talking started.
> 
> If you thought I was going to lash out, or that I was going to try to
> blame you, and if that would have prevented you from being willing to
> talk, I thought I might be able to allay those doubts, by speaking
> about my perspective on the matter.

No, I didn't think any of those things.  I was just providing 
context for why I thought you would be opposed to the sentence I was 
objecting to.

Just for future reference, I have no problem with it if someone 
drops a Usenet conversation in the middle -- because it's hurting 
them, because I'm boring them, because the kettle's on and company's 
coming, whatever.

> I wanted to establish that I was willing to talk about what had gone
> wrong, not who should be blamed for what.
> 
> That's all. 
> 
> However, since you ask some questions, I'll answer them.
> 
>> Do you really think that?  I thought you believed that hurt feelings 
>> were not the hurt person's fault? (I think that, for what it's 
>> worth, and am not baiting you; it's just my understanding of what I 
>> thought you believed/thought.)
> 
> It's not my fault if I'm hurt (well, I suppose anyone can hurt
> themselves (semi)intentionally). It is my responsibility to avoid
> letting my problems hurt other people. I failed in that
> responsibility.

But you didn't hurt me, if that's what you're saying -- you said, "I 
was wrong to let myself be hurt...", and I thought you were blaming 
yourself for your hurt feelings, not just for what you did with them.

Serene