Re: The difficulties of raising your kids to be properly homophobic

In alt.polyamory,  (Ann Burlingham) wrote in <u3am18mb9.fsf@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>::

>Gryph <gryphon420@[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> writes:
>> Chickpea wrote:
>> 
>> > My view:
>> > 1) Whatever else older people may or may not have achieved, they have
>> > managed to survive for a period of time, and may well have
experienced
>> > things that younger people have not. This deserves a certain baseline
>> > respect.
>> 
>> See, right there is my first point of disagreement with you. I think
>> that being alive deserves a certain baseline respect. 
>
>Well, yes. Which is rather the opposite of "respect must be earned",
>don't you think?
>
>I believe people deserve to be treated with respect. I also believe in
>teaching that there are certain behaviors we do for our own
>self-respect, whether or not we believe the recipient to be
>"deserving". 
>
>> That baseline
>> level of deserved respect does not increase just because someone has
>> survived longer. One is not entitled to anything above it, regardless
>> of how old one is.
>> 
>> > 2) With some caveats, I sup****t the Modified Golden Rule - do unto
>> > others as they would have you do unto them.
>> 
>> I tend to sup****t that except where it creates a non-equal,
>> hierarchical situation, as in the case of my MIL and my children.
>
>How does referring to someone politely as they have asked you to
>create an inequal, hierarchecal situation?
>
>> > 3) Older people, particularly those of a generation or so older than
>> > mine, come from a time where there was some automatic deference to
age.
>> > A little politeness costs nothing.  I gather that for many elderly
>> > people, one of the little irritations of being in a care facility is
>> > exactly this unwished-for informality from the staff.   It's crap
enough
>> > being old, we can at least be nice.
>> 
>> Politeness does not equal deference. This is a meme that I want to see
>> done away with, because it simply isn't so.
>
>So, one of the things I've been teaching my son, is that he simply
>does not have the judgment, granted mainly by life experience, which
>comes with age, to decide, say when to use certain phrases that may
>offend other people. When he's old enough to make those judgments, he
>may.
>
>> > This all supposes goodwill; an older person who abuses this or
oversteps
>> > the mark should still be brought up short.
>> 
>> In my opinion and my experience, those who insist on being called by a
>> title while calling other people of whatever age by their first names
>> are abusing and overstepping. 
>
>In my experience, substituting one set of unthought-out, default
>behaviors - like "call all people by their first names" in place of
>"call all people by an honorific and their surname" - doesn't change
>much behavior, while annoying more people.
>
>Teaching children "here's the default, this is why we do it, but we
>listen to what others tell us they wish to be called, and call them
>that, because they've asked us to" gets closer to making the world a
>pleasanter place. IMO.

Yes.  That.
-- 
Marc

Early to bed and early to rise make a man 
healthy -- if he exercises, 
wealthy -- if he strikes oil, and 
wise -- if he studies hard.  (Anon)